Krismc
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:08 PM |
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Engine still runs on, sometime never stops!!
My car still runs on when i switch off, this seems to be residual energy from alternator keeping ecu alive until ignition live wire drops too below
10v, I cannot cure fault by adding a diode too the charge light, a) the light doesn't work when I do this and b) the alt doesn't start
charging as I need the 12v ignition live to excite the alternator.
I cant work out that why when I switch off the ignition live gradually reduces and doesnt just switch off, any ideas, 40hrs in this garage this weak
and I'm beat,
I have removed the bright6, and off the instruments and ive removed everything i can including fuses and relays for lights, fan, repeaters etc.
Could my main harness be wired incorrectly too the alternator and starter, could i have a faulty ignition or something else?
Built, Ivaed, Drove and now Sold - 2011 MNR VORTX RT+ 2000cc Zetec on R1 Throttle boddies.
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flibble
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:10 PM |
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Can you not use a relay to cut off the alternator supply when the ignition is switched off?
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blakep82
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:13 PM |
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what ignition is it? toggle switch to the +ve feed to the ignition system? not ideal i know, but looks cool when you have to flick loads of switches
before starting
________________________
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Krismc
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flibble
Can you not use a relay to cut off the alternator supply when the ignition is switched off?
Would it not latch its self closed, and id need a big relay on the alt wiring it must pull a few amps?
id rather cure the fault if i could
Built, Ivaed, Drove and now Sold - 2011 MNR VORTX RT+ 2000cc Zetec on R1 Throttle boddies.
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Krismc
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
what ignition is it? toggle switch to the +ve feed to the ignition system? not ideal i know, but looks cool when you have to flick loads of switches
before starting
Sierra ignition switch, i think even with a toggle on ignition id get the same residual alternator voltage powering the ecu.
Built, Ivaed, Drove and now Sold - 2011 MNR VORTX RT+ 2000cc Zetec on R1 Throttle boddies.
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Chippy
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Krismc
My car still runs on when i switch off, this seems to be residual energy from alternator keeping ecu alive until ignition live wire drops too below
10v, I cannot cure fault by adding a diode too the charge light, a) the light doesn't work when I do this and b) the alt doesn't start
charging as I need the 12v ignition live to excite the alternator.
Sounds to me as if you have the diode the wrong way round, it needs to let the current flow one way and not the other. IMHO Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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daviep
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:34 PM |
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Did you try it with a conventional bulb instead of being wired through the bright6?
I would suggest regarding the diode that either you soldered it in the wrong way round or it was kaput before you started, have you tested the diode
since removing it?
You need to start testing in logical manner, changing only 1 variable at a time. I would put the car back together as it was originally then I would
do in this order:-
Run a completely seperate temporary charge light using a 3w bulb straight from the battery to the alternator and confirm that this works correctly and
does not run on.
I would then try hooking the temporary charge light in to the loom somewhere after the key switch, and see whether everything works ok, if does see
next step, if it doesn't try using a diode which has been tested to check polarity and functionality.
I would then try running the temporary charge light from the original point which went in to the bright six
If things were still OK I would try running the temporary charge light in series with the Bright6
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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Krismc
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
quote:
Originally posted by Krismc
My car still runs on when i switch off, this seems to be residual energy from alternator keeping ecu alive until ignition live wire drops too below
10v, I cannot cure fault by adding a diode too the charge light, a) the light doesn't work when I do this and b) the alt doesn't start
charging as I need the 12v ignition live to excite the alternator.
Sounds to me as if you have the diode the wrong way round, it needs to let the current flow one way and not the other. IMHO Ray
Tried diode both ways It doesnt start one way, and the light doesnt work at all the other way.
Built, Ivaed, Drove and now Sold - 2011 MNR VORTX RT+ 2000cc Zetec on R1 Throttle boddies.
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Krismc
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daviep
Did you try it with a conventional bulb instead of being wired through the bright6?
I would suggest regarding the diode that either you soldered it in the wrong way round or it was kaput before you started, have you tested the diode
since removing it?
You need to start testing in logical manner, changing only 1 variable at a time. I would put the car back together as it was originally then I would
do in this order:-
Run a completely seperate temporary charge light using a 3w bulb straight from the battery to the alternator and confirm that this works correctly and
does not run on.
I would then try hooking the temporary charge light in to the loom somewhere after the key switch, and see whether everything works ok, if does see
next step, if it doesn't try using a diode which has been tested to check polarity and functionality.
I would then try running the temporary charge light from the original point which went in to the bright six
If things were still OK I would try running the temporary charge light in series with the Bright6
Davie
Ive been gradually removing things then testing and trying and it still runs on.......
I removed all the bright six and wired in a warning bulb from halfords which is 28Ohms cold (approx 5w), car still ran on so ive ended up removing
absolutly every dial and guage wire now ive just got the main empty loom plugs coming from the car (ie not plug into anything)
The ECU and the 5w Charge warning light are only things connected, I have noticed the ignition live panel warning lights feed (green wire) and the ecu
ignition live feed (green wire) are both fed from same fuse.
[Edited on 31/3/11 by Krismc]
Built, Ivaed, Drove and now Sold - 2011 MNR VORTX RT+ 2000cc Zetec on R1 Throttle boddies.
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tomgregory2000
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
Sounds to me as if you have the diode the wrong way round, it needs to let the current flow one way and not the other. IMHO Ray
ditto
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Krismc
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tomgregory2000
quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
Sounds to me as if you have the diode the wrong way round, it needs to let the current flow one way and not the other. IMHO Ray
ditto
As discussed in another post the feed needs too go down the wire too excite the Alternator too start it, and then back up the wire once started to
knock the light out so i cant put a diode in that wire either way, and before i worked that out just incase people keep saying that, and just too make
sure im not going mad, ive tried a in4001, in4002 and in4004, in both directions and all diodes are working before and after trying, i tested them.
but car still does the same thing.
Built, Ivaed, Drove and now Sold - 2011 MNR VORTX RT+ 2000cc Zetec on R1 Throttle boddies.
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Chippy
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 02:54 PM |
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quote:
Tried diode both ways It doesnt start one way, and the light doesnt work at all the other way.
Well if the car wont start with the diod in place I would suggest that your putting it in the wrong wire, it needs to be in the wire that feeds the
alternator, try putting it after the warning light between that and the alternator, as you just need to stop it back feeding through that wire.
HTH Ray
Edit to say re above post the fact that the power will push back as far as the diode will put the light out, as it wont be drawing current just making
it. If that makes sense. Cheers Ray
[Edited on 31-3-11 by Chippy]
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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Krismc
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 03:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippy
quote:
Tried diode both ways It doesnt start one way, and the light doesnt work at all the other way.
Well if the car wont start with the diod in place I would suggest that your putting it in the wrong wire, it needs to be in the wire that feeds the
alternator, try putting it after the warning light between that and the alternator, as you just need to stop it back feeding through that wire.
HTH Ray
Edit to say re above post the fact that the power will push back as far as the diode will put the light out, as it wont be drawing current just making
it. If that makes sense. Cheers Ray
[Edited on 31-3-11 by Chippy]
Ill do a drawing and mind you after removing dash, ive been put diode on the green wire before the light and not after, hmm mybees i am a dingbat.
when dash was on i tried this....
with dash off, ive tried the diode after the light both ways round, ill go try now and post answer in 45mins
[Edited on 31/3/11 by Krismc]
Built, Ivaed, Drove and now Sold - 2011 MNR VORTX RT+ 2000cc Zetec on R1 Throttle boddies.
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lsdweb
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 03:37 PM |
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What happens if you unplug the alternator?
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rachaeljf
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 03:49 PM |
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It seems there is a fundamental wiring error somewhere. If it's wired correctly there should be no way the alternator can "back
feed" to the ignition system. All this fitting of diodes and relays is bodgery to be frank.
I suggest you disconnect everything that isn't required to actually run the engine. That should leave you with a very simple circuit to
trouble-shoot. Get that circuit sorted. If it is proved ok, add back each electrical circuit one at a time until you find the culprit.
To give you a start, bad earth connections are often the cause of "back feeding." When you see Ford Escorts driving around with weird
blinking brake and indicator lights, it's a bad earth.
Cheers R
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daviep
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 05:04 PM |
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Your 45 mins is up by a long way 
How's it going?
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 05:14 PM |
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Loom needs a re-think, methinks.
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ReMan
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 05:17 PM |
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I think that you have/had 2 issues.
1 is charging light, the other is that the ignition feed is not wired properly.
As said "If it's wired correctly there should be no way the alternator can "back feed" to the ignition system".
You need to look at the basics of where this ignition feed is from.
www.plusnine.co.uk
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 05:33 PM |
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Example:
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 05:37 PM |
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Sorry, that was a dodgy example but I think the point is you're probably feeding your alt back in on the wrong side of the main ignition relay -
i.e. it's holding its own when the link to the battery is pulled. The alt output should go through a fuse immediately back to the battery
terminal, whereas the field windings should be powered by the ignition switch.
[Edited on 31/3/11 by coyoteboy]
[Edited on 31/3/11 by coyoteboy]
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Krismc
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 06:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daviep
Your 45 mins is up by a long way
How's it going?
Ha ha, I decided to fibre glass when I was thinking, then got told to put up trellis in the wind, lol.
Any how I'm a dingbat, I've got 2 diodes in too stop feedback on charge, and on ecu, hey presto it works.
Not sure what is causing it, but that's saved me looking like a idiot with key in my hand, and also damaging alternators.
Worked out the reason testing was difficult was, the car was over running due to me starting and stopping, had 2 back feeds, and battery was so low it
wouldn't start charge circuit.
Built, Ivaed, Drove and now Sold - 2011 MNR VORTX RT+ 2000cc Zetec on R1 Throttle boddies.
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RichardK
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 07:08 PM |
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Glad you've got it sorted, nice one.
Cheers
Rich
Gallery updated 11/01/2011
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Krismc
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| posted on 31/3/11 at 07:33 PM |
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just need the sun too come back out sometime
Built, Ivaed, Drove and now Sold - 2011 MNR VORTX RT+ 2000cc Zetec on R1 Throttle boddies.
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