D Beddows
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 01:09 PM |
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I think someone should get off their arse and actually do this so next time the topic comes up we wont all have to guess about how good or bad it will
be  By 'do this' I mean put a modern TDI engine with all it's electrickery in a kit car BTW not the Isuzu/GM engine which only
needs about the same amount of wiring as an XFlow to get running and which are pretty much the only diesel engines to have been put in a kit car so
far to my knowledge
Personally I actually think it might be rather good if done properly - Saab Turbo engines have a very similar power delivery/torque to a diesel after
all but no one dismisses them as quickly......... 
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UncleFista
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 01:33 PM |
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At Newark there was a 7 just leaving as I spotted the diesel rattle coming from it.
It was yellow and it had some sticker on the back saying something about running on chip fat.
As I say, it was just leaving so didn't see anything of it except the rear end.
It didn't sound like a "new generation" engine though, decidedly agricultural sounding 
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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Surrey Dave
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 01:44 PM |
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Do it!
I've thought about this a lot , but can't be arsed to do it , I think it could be really good , I accept the theories over weight and not
needing loads of torque etc , but I still think the mid useable driving range torque/acceleration would be amazing, I have driven a Focus 1.8 sport
diesel and it is incredibly responsive and crisp.
Although I'm not sure how an Escort axle would cope................
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Irony
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 01:53 PM |
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I always thought that the engine etc from a 320d BMW would be the way forward.
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dinosaurjuice
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 01:58 PM |
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some strong opinions from people who have never driven a diesel kit car.
i have one. its cool. but its a mid engined Rocket so traction is not an issue. definately not suited to the 7 style car.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 01:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Irony
I think this is a good idea because I own a PD 150bhp golf and the engine is awesome. Goes like stink
They certainly feel very fast because the a big push you get as the turbo spools up, but look at actual performance (none of the stupid
"in gear" rubbish) and they aren't especially rapid. 0-60 for a 150PD Gold is about 8.3 seconds - not exactly slow for sure, but
not really a rocket ship and it's still a little slower than the petrol engine with the same power.
My friends supercharged MG ZT V8 producing 400 bhp is enormously quick, but doesn't feel it at all because of the very flat torque curve which
just gives constant hard acceleration from idle up to the red line rather than a sudden kick which then tails off a few thousand RPM later.
[Edited on 6/7/11 by MikeRJ]
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D Beddows
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 02:37 PM |
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quote:
My friends supercharged MG ZT V8 producing 400 bhp is enormously quick, but doesn't feel it at all
I'll be honest, I've never seen the point of having an enormously fast road car that doesn't 'feel' quick......... a
slower one that feels quick (for whatever reason) is always ultimately much more fun surely!
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Irony
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 02:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by D Beddows
quote:
My friends supercharged MG ZT V8 producing 400 bhp is enormously quick, but doesn't feel it at all
I'll be honest, I've never seen the point of having an enormously fast road car that doesn't 'feel' quick......... a
slower one that feels quick (for whatever reason) is always ultimately much more fun surely!
+1
'Sorry Officer - it didn't feel like I was going that quick'
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whitestu
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 02:57 PM |
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quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by D Beddows
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My friends supercharged MG ZT V8 producing 400 bhp is enormously quick, but doesn't feel it at all
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll be honest, I've never seen the point of having an enormously fast road car that doesn't 'feel' quick......... a
slower one that feels quick (for whatever reason) is always ultimately much more fun surely!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you are both wrong - fun cars are ones that feel like they want to go fast and even on light throttle openings will pick up and rev,
which is why diesel cars aren´t any fun and why even small petrol engined cars often are.
Something like a 1.2 Alfasud is slow but amazing fun as it feels like it just wants to keep on revving.
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Simon
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 08:52 PM |
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This q comes along every now and again and the torque issue always come up.
Torque effect can be reduced by using a lower ratio diff. This also has the effect of increasing a diesel engines speed range in each gear.
I think it's a fab idea to stick a diesel engine in. If you soundproof the engine bay a bit and have a reasonably open exhaust, they sound
great.
And who really wouldn't want to get 50 mpg when on a run at a constant speed (ie when driving normally in traffic).
Many years ago we had a auto 827 Vitesse and I was following an old 218 diesel. I had trouble catching him from about 50 - 80m then I got past. That
was 14 years ago, and I still wonder why I bother with petrol
ATB
Simon
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orton1966
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 09:52 PM |
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Traction Control a Posibility?
Might sound obvious but use a modern diesel engine, adapt the stock ECU fit speed sencors to the hubs and keep traction control. I honestly think (and
I haven’t done it like almost all those commenting on this thread) the “Diesel won’t work in a light car” rhetoric is no different to the “200hp is
the absolute limit for FWD” argument that used to exist.
Basically these things are often quoted, often based of the musings of some long retired ‘so called’ sage of motorsport but generally quoted by people
who haven’t tried things out for them selves.
Like most I don’t know what a 7 on diesel will be like to drive but my best guess is if it is done well and remember many petrol variants are not! I
believe it will be super drivable, easy to drive and forgiving like almost all diesels I’ve ever driven
[Edited on 6/7/11 by orton1966]
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Liam
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 10:41 PM |
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I really never understand why people go on so much about the 'impressive' torque figures of diesel engines?? They are flywheel torque
figures and so meaningless without taking the revs/gearing into account. Unless you want a top speed of about 80mph you need considerably higher
gearing in your 150bhp/200lbft/5000rpm diesel than in your 150bhp/150lbft/7500rpm petrol car. So as far as the wheels are concerned that big diesel
torque number is gone thanks to the gearing. All that's really changed significantly is the delivery. Diesel delivery favours lazy driving where
you want to just prod the throttle pedal to go without being arsed to change down a gear or two. The peakier petrol delivery suits a more involved
spirited driving style where you ring out the engine and use the gears to get the best out of it, a bike engine takes that to the extreme. One of
those characteristics suits dull shopping/commuting boxes and commercial vehicles, one of them suits fun toy cars - guess which is which Then
there's the god-awful sound. Why anyone would go to all the effort of building a unique car purely for pleasure and even consider a diesel I
cannot comprehend!
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