stevebubs
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 01:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
Bloomin' heck, that sounds like a really good deal! 
When I phoned Griffin, they gave me a price as follows:
700 series ECU - £941
2 Sender units - £32
Engine bay loom - £180
Rolling road map - £300
...... a bit steep considering it uses the Duratec's coil pack too.
Don't get me wrong - it's probably a great system but just a bit too rich for my pocket.
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
.....give him a call on 0121 694 0740 and tell him that Nat from M+L Autograss club sent you! When you finish talking to him, ask him where my ruddy
gearbox is!!!!
I'll do that tomorrow!
[Edited on 25-10-05 by RazMan]
Get onto the Megasquirt forum and start looking around....I'm sure someone has done it before.
Alternatively, an Emerald shouldn't be *that* hard to get running....
If you're worried about the induction side, get yourself a couple of sets of bike throttle bodies and make a manifold and fuel rail....
S
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RazMan
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 01:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
Razman, you have U2U re. something very interesting on Ebay!!
Cheers matey  
[Edited on 30-10-05 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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stevebubs
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 01:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gav
With all this fafing around you could of got a megasquirt system up and running by now
Their are some US guys on probetalk.com that are running ms systems.
Does the probe not use a Mazda engine?
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RazMan
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 01:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
Does the probe not use a Mazda engine?
Yep, which is completely different from the Duratec.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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stevebubs
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 01:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
Hi Stephen,
My engine a 2.5L Duratec V6. I would like to know if I need to modify the engine in any way to incorporate their ECU? I understand that they supply a
loom which only requires a connector to be transferred from the donor loom. The only questionable area would appear to be Ford’s variable inlet system
– do I need to hold the secondary chokes open or does their ECU take this on too? Also, I want to incorporate a nitrous injection system and this was
mentioned in their website info somewhere – can this be written into the map?
Ideally I would like a ‘shopping list’ of parts required but any information will be appreciated.
Any secondary butterflies should be kept open and only the main throttlebody used to vary the air intake. Only exception to this would be IACV - the
Emerald was designed to be a plug replacement for a Rover MEMS ECU so can drive a rover IACV directly.
IIRC, you may need an EDIS-6 unit to get the sparks, too.
Stephen
PS As I understand it, the above will be true for both MS and Emerald.
PPS Not sure on the nitrous side...may be worth asking Emerald directly (Avoiding any mention of the engine). Can definitely cope with
turbo/supercharging tho.
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RazMan
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 02:33 PM |
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Apparently, most of the modern ECU's easily look after things like Nitrous, fuel pump, water pump(if electric) and the racing requirements such
as launch control, traction control, rev limiting etc etc.
Most of these feature would have been considered very advanced only a few years ago but with the microprocessors being so cheap now they are used in
just about every design.
quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
Any secondary butterflies should be kept open and only the main throttlebody used to vary the air intake. Only exception to this would be IACV - the
Emerald was designed to be a plug replacement for a Rover MEMS ECU so can drive a rover IACV directly..
I have nearly decided on an MBE system now - the 970. This ECU will even take over the operation of the secondary chokes. Even though this is
not strictly neccessary on a lightweight car, it should still show some benefits in 'driveability' on the road.
[Edited on 30-10-05 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 02:46 PM |
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you wont go far wrong with MBE .
im using MS with EDIS - and capable for 2 bar boost - with the latest software you can control a few things , if your good with software you might be
able to program it yourself (the second throttle)
of course this is 4 cyl stuff - but edis 6 can be controlled by the same computer !
its all much of a muchness if you cant tune it properly tho !! so get the best rolling road operator you can find .
dennis vessey is an appointed MBE dealer .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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stevebubs
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 03:38 PM |
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Just had a thought (rare, I know)...
If you're running a V6 then a couple of sets of throttlebodies from a speed triple should do you nicely.
Probably won't cost you that much, either
Stephen
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RazMan
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 04:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
If you're running a V6 then a couple of sets of throttlebodies from a speed triple should do you nicely.
Probably won't cost you that much, either
Stephen - I was originally thinking about some throttle bodies but decided to stick to the original injection - the tb's would have to go on top
of the 'V' and the existing plenum is only 20mm away from the engine bay. It would mean quite a bit of body work due to the design of my
car. Plus a lot of people say that tb's always make enclosed cars smell of petrol (which wouldn't be too much of a problem in a Seven) Ask
any Ultima driver and you probably get the same answer.
Out of interest, are you referring to the Triumph Speed Triple?
Volvorsport - I am fairly competent when it comes to computers but a rolling road mapping session is way beyond me so I think I will hand that part
over to the professionals. At least with the MBE I will have a fairly accurate map to begin with
[Edited on 30-10-05 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 06:48 PM |
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using the software to map isnt that hard - the skill is knowing/listening using the instruments to get the best out of the engine .
eg on megasquirt using the arrow keys adds more or less fuel , its that simple , but the skill of the operator will be listening for pink and watching
his AFRs .
some Ecu have self tune to a degree , even MS has this now , as long as youve got closed loop with a wideband !
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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stevebubs
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 07:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
If you're running a V6 then a couple of sets of throttlebodies from a speed triple should do you nicely.
Probably won't cost you that much, either
Stephen - I was originally thinking about some throttle bodies but decided to stick to the original injection - the tb's would have to go on top
of the 'V' and the existing plenum is only 20mm away from the engine bay. It would mean quite a bit of body work due to the design of my
car. Plus a lot of people say that tb's always make enclosed cars smell of petrol (which wouldn't be too much of a problem in a Seven) Ask
any Ultima driver and you probably get the same answer.
Out of interest, are you referring to the Triumph Speed Triple?
[Edited on 30-10-05 by RazMan]
a) Can understand the bodywork issue.
a) Yes - it was the Triumph I was thinking of
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RazMan
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| posted on 30/10/05 at 07:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
the skill of the operator will be listening for pink and watching his AFRs
Precisely - I had a rolling road session last year which was terminated due to 'excessive pinking'. I was standing right next to the car
and I couldn't hear a thing! Maybe years of running loud exhausts on my bikes & cars has made me a bit deaf.
That's when I vowed to leave tuning to someone with all their senses intact
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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awhite
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 10:05 AM |
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Interested to know how far you get with this. I have a cougar V6 as my normal car. The engine is sweet and would love to put it in the kit.
The exhausts are gonna be a b1tch.
On the cougar forum i have heard of some guys replacing a lot of bits with the st220 mondeo and ending up with 220bhp like the mondeo. I think there
is a company that does it all for you (not cheap though)
Going for throttle bodies would probably give you close to that figure anyway i guess, but like you say difficult to fit in.
Andy
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RazMan
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 10:21 AM |
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After doing a bit of searching I quickly discovered that the V6 isn't really a popular engine to tune like the 4 pot Duratec. The only options
for upping the power seem to be:
1. Improve intake breathing - ST200 inlet manifold & throttle body. K&N style air filter.
(allegedly up to 10 bhp)
2. Decent catless exhaust system. (5-10 bhp)
These mods should bring it closer to 200 bhp. Serious power increases will undoubtably cost equally serious money ...... except for nitrous oxide 
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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FlansS14
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 11:33 AM |
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slightly off topic. so sorry . but if anyone wants an 2.9 24v v6 newer shape lump i have a brand new one in the shed doing nothing. quite cheep.
o and as for your engine if it hasn't been said b4. emerald are very good. i have a std engine in a tvr s2 running 220 with only an air filter
as mods.
Stu
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RazMan
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| posted on 4/11/05 at 11:46 PM |
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FlansS14 - You have U2U
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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awhite
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| posted on 7/11/05 at 10:27 AM |
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Here is the info taken from the Cougar Owners club forum:
Well here goes. Please make sure you read the notes at the very bottom of this post.
Package Prices
+40bhp package for 2.5 and 3.0 engines consisting of:
Fully modified heads
Four fast road CAMs
Six branch exhaust manifold
Gaskets, plugs, oil, filters, new head bolts
Tuned on their rolling road with before and after power curves
All fully fitted for £3250
ProCharger conversion 2.5 V6 fully fitted (Includes Emerald ECU) £4950
ProCharger conversion 3.0 V6 fully fitted (Includes Emerald ECU) £4950
Parts Prices
Six Branch exhaust manifold ...... +15-20bhp......£395
Vortex Exhaust.......from £300
Set of modified Camshafts (Exchange) ......+10bhp......£305
Pair of polished and ported heads (Exchange) ......+15-20bhp......£795
Short Engine 2.5 V6 (Exchange).......£1295
Short Engine 3.0 V6 (Exchange).......£1995
New Emerald ECU with rolling road mappings ......£995
Uprated Injectors.......£79 each
Metal Impeller water pump ......£70
Uprated paddle clutch.......£275
Reconditioned MTX-75 gearbox......£495
Quaife LSD........£525
Forged steel Con Rod set ........£900
Forged piston set, with rings ......£900
Booster fuel pump .......£175
FSE Powervalve.......£95
Automatic to Manual conversion........Contact them for details
Rear Wheel drive conversion with five or six speed gearbox........Contact them for details
Note 1. Bhp increases are estimates and will vary between engines
Note 2. Bhp figures are based on the std ECU. More power is expected with new ECU and injectors.
Note 3. All prices exclude fitting unless specifically mentioned
Note 4. All prices exclude VAT.
Company is called Autocraft.
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RazMan
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| posted on 7/11/05 at 03:46 PM |
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Thanks for the info - all of it!
There seems to be quite a lot of kit (and cash) for such small gains in power. If I was thinking of rebuilding the engine to tune it to the hilt it
would be better (for me) to sell the ST24 lump and simply buy a brand new ST220 to give me similar power gains for around half the money.
My car is going to be a daily driver and track day car so I need to consider any investment carefully. As we all know, about 99% of any car's
use is cruising along on motorways, A roads etc at somewhere near the legal limit .... . The remaining 1% is usually on the track with maybe the
occasional 'spirited' burst on normal roads (embarrassing that £200,000 supercar )
I think my money would be better spent on a decent nitrous kit which will spend much of it's life switched off, except for that little extra
burst when required. My nitrous kit cost me £100 second hand and should give me an extra 60 - 80 bhp on demand.
I have now placed an order for an MBE EMS which will also be capable of triggering the nitrous too
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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