caber
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| posted on 8/11/05 at 11:20 PM |
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Pinto 1600 breathing
It looks like I will be using a Pinto 1600 for my build, What economic solutions are there for getting a bit more poke? I have never seen SUs applied
to the Pinto is there a reason for this? How about exhaust manifolds are there any cheapish options to replace the standard cast iron thing. What is
the best value for money work to do to the engine to improve grunt?
TIA
Caber
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tom windmill
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| posted on 8/11/05 at 11:23 PM |
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Hi
take a look at jacko's photo archive he has used twin SU's on his 2.0 indy although personally i would use bike carbs.
HTH Tom
[Edited on 8/11/05 by tom windmill]
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jonno
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| posted on 8/11/05 at 11:27 PM |
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Drop a 2.0 in there  ,but if you get a new exhaust manifold, that will be ok if you do upgrade. Also look about for a 38dgas or 40's
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Memphis Twin
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| posted on 9/11/05 at 01:56 AM |
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Get the head ported (you actually may need to ADD material to the ports to get the desired short turn radius on the inlet). Valves are plenty big
enough as standard for a 1600. Get the head skimmed to raise compression ratio, and stick a rally-spec cam in it, together with some decent valve
springs.
Stick some heavy-duty rod bolts in and you'll be safe for bursts to 7000rpm. Fit a high pressure oil pump. Twin 40 Webers are cheaper than 45s
and will work well with a 1600, but don't go over 33mm chokes. SUs will give lots of midrange torque, but throttle response will never match a
set of Webers
To be honest, I'd actually use a 2litre  the difference in grunt is substantial, and they're dirt cheap.
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oliwb
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| posted on 9/11/05 at 08:19 AM |
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Hi I've got a 1600 in my tiger Cat it's had a lot of work done to it even though its still not on the road so I can't actually say
what is worth doing:
Ported, polished + gas-flowed, lightened and balanced flywheel, kent cam, big group something valves, new pistons and conrods (strengthened), running
a bank of ZX7r bike carbs. In orther words its had most of what the 2L guys do. I know people are not a fan of the 1600 because of the shear no of
2L kicking around for pennies but I'm only 19 and so the difference it makes in my insurance is quite substantial! Someone also told me
recently that 7's handle much better with a 1600 rather than 2L power because of the weight issue....aklthough I don't believe this
because surely the blocks are exactly the same?? and probably almost exactly the same head?? Dunno really......I would stick some bike carbs on it
though.....HELL of a lot cheaper than the 40 yr old webbers! Oli. oh yeh and a megajolt electronic ignition 3d mapable jobby....again fairly cheap
sub £100 if you know where to look.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 9/11/05 at 08:40 AM |
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A single SU is a simple device that gives no trouble but twin SUs especially once they wear a bit are a pain in **** they were never used on Ford
engines because Twin choke Webers gave the same or more grunt were easier to set up and gave much better idling.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 9/11/05 at 08:46 AM |
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Ive gone straight into a 2.0 Pinto with basic head mods and a lista mile long of possible future winter work.
My recommendation - keep the 1600 simple. Even with extensive and costly mods it will never be as good as std 2.0. Fit a nice exhaust and manifold - 2
reasons - 1. it is also part of the cars look, 2. it will be OK to use with the 2.0.
Get the car on road, SVA'd etc etc. Im guessing you are young if you are going for 1600 so this will give you some experience and an insurance
contact. Later id recommend getting hold of a 2.0 and stick your cash into that. Head mods are very simple - ive just done mine. Re-bore to 2.1 isnt
difficult but will require machine shop time = a few £'s. Ive opted for 38DGAS for now but later im going for bike carbs or throttle bodies.
It might be worth getting some quotes for 2.0. The engines are not expensive and you may be pleasantly surprised about insurance.
If you do stick with 1600, and no reason why not, then you my be surprised to learn that some head builders prefer the 1.6 head when doing serious
work for 2.0 cars. They have more meat on them to get desired port shapes etc.
Try reading Des Hammils book (cant remember name - How To Power tune Ford SOHC or something like that). I followed his tips and the advice is very
easy to understand.
For 2.0 advice then Mookaloid is the man. He managed a million horsepower from very few mods on his.
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caber
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| posted on 9/11/05 at 09:28 AM |
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Thanks guys, not young I am afraid just trying to do it all on the cheap and now happen to have a 1600 to hand! I just realised I have a pair of
stromburgs of a rover V8 it would mean building a manifold but is this worth pursuing? I was looking at side draught carbs to avoid bonnet lumps and
holes, I believe I need to move the oil filler to the opposite end of the rocker cover for this as well.
I will need to get a new distributor as it is missing from the engine can I use any pinto dizzy or is one beter than another?
Thanks again
Caber
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mookaloid
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| posted on 9/11/05 at 10:10 AM |
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Hi Caber,
The pinto engine has some great potential you just need to get the air in and out as efficiently as you can.
So if you are on a budget I would suggest you should have a good manifold and exhaust as Darren says.
Followed by bike carbs off a 600 - you can pick them up off ebay for little money and if you are happy to make a manifold for SU's or strombergs
then making one for bike carbs should be easier still.
I used vacuumless aldon (bosch) dizzy with an aldon ignitor - you need to use one without vacuum advance if you are using bike carbs.
the above will get you going, after that it's down to how much do you want to spend? cylinder head mods and a hotter cam will get you more BHP
and lightening the flywheel will make it more responsive balancing the crank/rods/pistons/flywheel/clutch will make it smoother and seem revvier.
You will need to consider the crank case breathing system if you use bike carbs as the standard system which connects to the inlet manifold will have
no where to connect to.
Suggested reading:
http://hometown.aol.com/dvandrews/
Have fun
Cheers
Mark
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DarrenW
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| posted on 9/11/05 at 11:04 AM |
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If you are not restricted by insurance then i see no reason at all why a good 2.0 cannot be sourced for under £100. To be honest if you fit 1600 and
tinker with it you will only end up going for 2.0 later anyway. They are cheap as chips and fitting one from the off will save you in the long run.
Best 2.0 to get is injected one. Convert to carbs for simplicity and fit decent ignition. It is possible to get engine for £50, carbs for £75 and
ignition for £30. Fair dos the engine could be tired at that, probs the cam will be knackered but i rebuilt head, ported, 285 cam etc and big skim for
£140. Bottom ends tend to be bullet proof if used normally in a road car and will see you to second winter where you can go wild on rebuild then.
To be honest i think id budget elsewhere and fit decent engine from the off. There are easier bits to replace.
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caber
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| posted on 9/11/05 at 10:56 PM |
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The scrappies up here want silly money for complete engines one quoted me £350 for a Pinto last weekend! also for some reason, maybe more salt on the
roads, all but one sierra I have seen in scrappies have been DOHC :-(
I gather that banger racing and stock car racing grab as many sierras as they can and who wants an engine when they are done with it!
Caber
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caber
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| posted on 10/11/05 at 10:00 AM |
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Another stupid question. How do you size bike carbs to suite a car engine? Is it looking for a carb to serve the same cylinder capacity, i.e 1600cc
requires 4 carbs from 400cc engines? If so how do you match and set up 4 carbs or is it just bike carbs are simple and don't require the setting
up car type carbs need?
TIA
Caber
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 10/11/05 at 10:25 AM |
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Its the airflow capacity, litres per minute, but the easy way is a 600cc bike revving to 12,000rpm will flow the same as a 1200cc car engine revving
to 6000rpm, so you 1.6 will need carbs of a 800cc+ bike.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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caber
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| posted on 10/11/05 at 07:08 PM |
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OK I get that, anything I should particularly look for on bike carbs? Any make better than others any particular bike a good donor?
TIA
Caber
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