MattCraneCustoms
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 10:11 AM |
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X-Flow, Pinto or Zetec - Which Do I Have?
Hi all,
I was considering a 1600 X-Flow, but they are seriously old now yeah? Seen plenty of bits to rebuild / tune them so thats not so much of a concern,
but what are the advantages of the Pinto / Zetec? they'll fit into the T9 Box same as the X-Flow am I right? I want to stick to the book /
Mcsorley plans as much as possible, whatever advice you guys can give is much appreciated.
Regards
Matt
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ecosse
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 10:30 AM |
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Hi Matt
x-flow is old for sure but is also fairly light and well tuneable, same goes for the pinto for tuning, but it is heavy and tall, zetec is reasonable
weight, good power (TB or webers) and are easy and cheap to buy (guess what I'm using )
They will all fit on a T9 although Pinto/Zetec I think need to use a different clutch unit (?) someone else will confirm that though.
Cheers
Alex
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skydivepaul
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 10:30 AM |
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pinto will be much cheaper than a zetec but you get what you pay for. old heavy engine or new modern engine?
both can be made to give good power but i depends on what you what you want to do with the car and how much you want to spend. if you want to build on
a budget then boat anchor...............sorry pinto is the way.
once you have seen the light you will need to change to bike power
i might just have a complete R1 kit up for sale in about a month. engine, ecu, engine cradle, clocks, exhaust etc.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 10:32 AM |
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You can use any of those engines.
It depends on how much you want to spend.
If you just want a cheap engine with decent performance, go for a zetec.
If you want to do some tuning to boost the standard power output the x-flow and pinto's are well understood and reasonably cheap to tune. the
zetec can be tuned but will be more expensive (2 cams 16 valves and seats etc)
You will be able to get more power out of a pinto but it is taller and heavier.
You can pick up zetecs for a couple of hundred quid, you just have to figure out what to do with the rest of the mondeo
Cheers
Mark
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MattCraneCustoms
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 10:43 AM |
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Yeah been thinking of going towards zetec . . an uncle has a 2.0 Zetec E mondeo thats done 100k and needs a home. A good rebuild and it should make a
good engine as standard?
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se7ensport
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 10:51 AM |
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a zetec with 100k on it probably doesn't need rebuilding unless its been seriously thrashed, that is if you plan to rebuild as standard,
i'd save the money for other stuff or even a couple of spare engines 
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SixedUp
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 10:52 AM |
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As a Pinto owner, I'd suggest that you go Zetec.
They're now available very cheaply, and even in standard tune with a pair of 45's they'll give you between 150 and 175bhp with
plenty of torque. You'd need to tune a Pinto quite a bit to get that power, and that costs money.
Add to that the fact that its a physically smaller engine (making it easier to fit) and the choice seems obvious.
Cheers
Richard
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MattCraneCustoms
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 11:07 AM |
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Ah excellent I'd have thought it would need a rebuild, but this guy's never done over 70mph . He says its not got much go any more but he
wouldn't really know!!! A Zetec's sounding good now, its my first build so I want a standard engine primarily. So know the plan seems to
be:
Zetec E 2.0
T9 Box
Escort Rear axle
Any other things you guys can suggest?
Regards
Matt
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BKLOCO
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 11:07 AM |
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Both the Pinto and the Zetec are "tall" engines and will not fit under standard bodywork.
I personally can see no point in fitting a Pinto and tuning it.
You will get more power from a Zetec in an untuned state than a fairly highly tuned pinto.
Remember the higher the state of tune the less reliable and less tractable the car becomes.
The only disadvantage of the Zetec is you will have to use some form of distributorless ignition system as there is no provision for a distributor on
this engine.
You would also have to find aftermarket carbs or FI system as the standard Ford system wont fit.
All this has been done many times and many ways and is all well documented.
The only advantage I can see for fitting a cross flow engine is if you want to keep to "traditional" lines. (lower bonnet).
Regarding a bike engine I'm personally not a fan of this setup for road use.
Ok for the track and impressing the uninformed but a complete PITA to drive on the road. (especially around town)
I've fitted a Zetec and am very happy with the result. However if I were building another Clubman style car I personally would fit a Duratec if
money were no object or a 4AGE if I wanted to keep costs down.
Prices you can expect to pay are about :
£50 - £100 Pinto
£150 - £200 Zetec
£250 - £350 4AGE (G.box adaptor/bellhousing reqd.)
£800 - £1000 (new crated) Duratec. (G.box adaptor/bellhousing reqd.)
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want!!! 
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smart51
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 11:08 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ecosse
They will all fit on a T9 although Pinto I think need to use a different clutch unit (?)
Pinto engines, as taken from Sierras, are fitted with type 9 boxes as standard and so need no modification. If you are using a sierra donor with a
Pinto engine, the pinto engine is free. Zetec engines cost not much but need a bit of work to fit to a type 9 box. It is probably worth the effort
and extra money.
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BKLOCO
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 11:11 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MattCraneCustoms
Escort Rear axle
Any other things you guys can suggest?
Regards
Matt
If you're going Zetec this will raise the body line due to "tall" engine therefore a Sierra track will be more in proportion. DeDion
rear might be a better option.
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want!!!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 11:43 AM |
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I went with a 2.0 pinto, mainly because it was free, but this makes it easier for me to change to a cossie turbo later (its the same block)
Also as mine is a Dax kit not a book car there are no issues with the height of this engine
assuming your not going to upgrade to a cossie I'd say your much better off starting with a more modern engine
Zetec E's (black & silver tops) come in 1.8 and 2.0 versions from mondeo's and focus'
they are becoming quite cheep and tuning parts are easy to get now - will need a bit of work to convert to rwd
They have got an iron block and a 16v alloy head
2.0 Vauxhall - I don't think there is much in it between this and the zetec, but you can get older "red top's" from rwd cars
and wont need a cat for emissions - however they do seem to cost a bit more than zetecs
Zetec SE's - 1.25, 1.4, 1.6 & 1.7 seem to be regarded as a not quite as good as the larger zetec (which is a completly different engine) but
I think they are all alloy, they are small, cheep and you can get tuning parts for them - (I had an article in a mag somewere with one of these in a
quantum - i'll see if I can find out which box they used)
personaly I'd go with a 2.0 Zetec E or 2.0 Duratec HE but it sounds like they would be phisicaly to big for what you have in mind
[Edited on 23/8/06 by mcerd1]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 11:56 AM |
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I have a 1660 x-flow... if you were given a fit and healthy x-flow then I'd recommend that you use it, as they are fairly small, much lighter
than the Pinto and make a nice noise. They are also very easy to service (glorified Meccano).
However, if you have to go out engine hunting then I'd suggest something like a Zetec - cheap, cheerful, and available, if a bit taller.
Otherwise you could look around for something a bit exotic like the Toyota 4AGE. This engine's about the same size as the x-flow, but gives a
free-revving 130BHP in standard form. Much more money involved...
Zetec is definately the cheaper option though.
David
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MattCraneCustoms
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 11:59 AM |
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lol at the minute I haven't got anything set in stone. I'm just trying to get something solid, not overly complex, but a nice, road going
car. So you think a sierra rear axle dedion setup will be better for a 2.0 Zetec? and how much work will the engine require to fit the T9 box??
regards,
Matt
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procomp
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 12:06 PM |
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Hi forget the pinto to heavy. Crosflow old but all parts can now be brought brand new from sky ford who now own the rights to the engine but it will
still cost a good bit of money to build or recon one. Zetec is probably the way to go as engines are readilly available even brand new from ford for
£550 . As others have said it is a tall engine but nothing that cant be sorted . The only other expence is whether you want to use twin 40's
throtle bodies or bike carbs then there's the ecu standard or after market ie weber alpha - dta - emerald - or the megajolt.
If you wanted to we have cars at our premises with simmalar to book chassis with zetecs and type 9 4+5 speed box's all fully installed as well
as cars with the crossflow in as well but these are race cars not road ones but other than a few extra parts for road use they are the same if you
wanted to take a look to see how it all fits together as a package your welcome as your only 40min away.
cheers matt
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pajsh
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 12:17 PM |
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Nobody has really mentioned emissions which with newer engines can mean more complexity and expense. Various sensors, engine management and a cat.
I'm happy with the pinto as it's dead simple. Mine already had a 1.6 pinto when I got it half built and V5 paperwork for an age related
plate. I'm going to 2.0 as I have one and the upgrade should be pretty easy.
In looking into the costs of tuning the 2.0l though I concluded a Zetec would be a better bet for less weight, a more modern engine and probably more
power for similar money.
I used to be apathetic but now I just don't care.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 12:26 PM |
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From memory to make a Zetec fit a type 9 (with 4cly input shaft length and bellhousing) you just need a pinto 2.0 clutch (very cheep) and a flywheel
to suit it (modified zetec one or a new steel one)
I'm sure someone here will have all the details and costs
there are also a few bits and bobs avalible to make fitting a zetec into rwd cars easier but I doubt you'd need them
quote:
Originally posted by procomp
The only other expence is whether you want to use twin 40's throtle bodies or bike carbs then there's the ecu standard or after market ie
weber alpha - dta - emerald - or the megajolt.
If you budget is tight I'd suggest either keeping the ford fuel and spark setup from the mondeo or if you want to simplify things - go with bike
carbs + ignition only ecu (this is I'm planning for the pinto - it been done plenty times before)
there are some pics of the R1 carb/Zetec setup here: Bogg Bros. (bottom of the page)
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zetec7
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 04:43 PM |
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Zetec engines are very light - and lightness = performance. Also, since they're still current, parts will be around for years. Witness the
Toyota 4AG motors, they're getting expensive to fix as parts get scarce! The Zetec motors can go from mild to wild, and you can do it in stages
(with the 2.0 litre, for example, 140-275 bhp is possible without stressing the motor).
BTW, guess what I'm using?!
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roadboy
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 05:55 PM |
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Zetec is the best option in my opinion, but i'm biased as I am using one. If you think the Zetec needs a rebuild forget it as it could turn out
almost as expensive as a new Zetec without the exact tolerances of a new engine. I general if they have been regularly serviced 100K is no
problem.
Trying to tune old crossflows & Pintos on Carbs is futile as you will never get Zetec standard power from them without spending lots of cash.
Check out my Zetec installation in my photo archive or previous posts.
Cheers
Ian
Jude Performance Services
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