Marlon
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| posted on 22/1/07 at 08:33 PM |
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pinto's new rattle??
Good evening all.
Oh am I confused, for the life of me I can't sus this out, I hope some of you can shed a bit of light on the situation??
I'll start at the begining......
I have had the motor running on the new carbs and megajolt for a good few weeks now but with a few problems.
1) Carbs were out of ballance and so didn't run smoothly
2) Lots of water getting into the oil, (I put this down to a poor quality head gasket bought from the bay of E)
3) I know nothing about megajolt or setting it up  But decidet that this was the way to go none the less, Quite a bit of backfire to start with,
although with more time spent on it, it's getting there.
Right I thought. easy to sort? Firstly I sorted the carb ballancing with a little help from Gunsons 1/2 hour job, Easy.
then checked the idle mixture and got that somthing like. Car is now ticking over quite smoothly but oil is getting more watery by the day so. A visit
to Andy pages for a head set and away we go. 1 new head gasket fitted along with valve stem oil seals and a re-set of clearences, (All of these were
done when I stripped and checke the motor out before fitting to car) Re-gap the plugs and away we go???
Yes it now runs with no water in the oil but I have aquired quite a loud tapping/rattle from what sounds like the exhaust headers or just below in the
block. This was definately not there before the strip down as motor was super quiet. For the life of me I can't work out what it is?? It's
more than likely somthing really simple but I can't sus it out.
Anyone got any ideas????????
Thanks in advance.
john.
Band Anyone?
Linky to SWMBO 's band
Linky to Brother in laws band
MKoc 1081
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flak monkey
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| posted on 22/1/07 at 08:38 PM |
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Possibly pinking, back off the advance a bit and see if that stops it.
You should be running about 10deg advance to start with, then adjust it from there.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 22/1/07 at 08:41 PM |
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Recheck the valve timing before you do anything else even if your sure it was correct . check and reset valve clearances. Fit new spray bar ? could be
clogged and not worth cleaning . Look for signs of cam and follower wear.
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Andy S
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| posted on 22/1/07 at 08:50 PM |
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Sounds to me like the exhaust gaskets are leaking - check that you have put them on correctly and that all the bolts are tightened as they should be.
Easy enough to check carefully by feel or put a piece of string on the end of a stick and move it around the flanges to see it gets blown about.
Andrew
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darrens
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| posted on 22/1/07 at 08:52 PM |
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I agree, sounds like exhaust gaskets, a leaking exhaust gasket will make any engine sound like a tractor.
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Marlon
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| posted on 22/1/07 at 09:08 PM |
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thanks for the quick responces.
Results so far......
have checked timing and is at about 10deg at tickover
Valve timing checked and Ok, Clearences checked earlier this evening and all Ok, cam and lobes all fine and plenty of oil circulating up top so spray
bar ok.
Will fit different exhaust gaskets as I could well have over tightened and split them when re fitting the pipe. I do hope thats it?? as it does sound
very poorly at the mo.
Thanks again for all replys so far.
john
( I'm off to try exhaust gaskets)
Band Anyone?
Linky to SWMBO 's band
Linky to Brother in laws band
MKoc 1081
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mark chandler
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| posted on 22/1/07 at 09:44 PM |
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Hmmm pinto, whip the cam cover off and look at the follower retainer springs, if you have them the wrong way around then you will get a tappety top
end.
From memory (and this is years ago) the springs are in two parts, the bit that sits on the adjustment post with a couple of wire ears and the top
curly bit.
If you have the ears facing outwards the top spring applies very little pressure to keep the follower on top of the valve.
I think thats the correct way around, you may have a couple switched around, I,m sure someone here more knowledgeable than me will confirm
'ear' direction, this was 20 years ago !
Regards Mark
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Marlon
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| posted on 22/1/07 at 10:15 PM |
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Thanks mark I'll give that one a try tommorow as i've just put in new exhaust manifold gaskets and problem is still there, although
i'm not 100% it's coming from the top end but that could just be my hearing!
Thanks again
john.
Band Anyone?
Linky to SWMBO 's band
Linky to Brother in laws band
MKoc 1081
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Hellfire
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| posted on 23/1/07 at 12:19 AM |
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I'll tell you what though....
It amazes me why anyone puts a rusty old unreliable heap of scrap iron in a new car... you never hear of us BEC boys complaining now do you....
Legs it before someone realises what I just said <runs away!!>
Steve
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flak monkey
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| posted on 23/1/07 at 07:05 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
I'll tell you what though....
It amazes me why anyone puts a rusty old unreliable heap of scrap iron in a new car... you never hear of us BEC boys complaining now do you....
Legs it before someone realises what I just said <runs away!!>
Steve
Cant remember the last time somone knackered a gearbox or clutch in a CEC though   
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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britishtrident
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| posted on 23/1/07 at 09:16 AM |
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Sounds to me like it is over advanced but it could be a lot of things -- is it a knock or a rattle ?
If the the noise is at half engine speed it points to the camshaft -- always the weak point on the Pinto
If it is at crankshaft speed then it points towards a little end bearing or big end bearing.
Remember it is an ancient Pinto that was considered a lump of rattling junk even when they came out in 1970 --- not worth spending any time or
money on.
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trogdor
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| posted on 23/1/07 at 09:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
I'll tell you what though....
It amazes me why anyone puts a rusty old unreliable heap of scrap iron in a new car... you never hear of us BEC boys complaining now do you....
Legs it before someone realises what I just said <runs away!!>
Steve
Cant remember the last time somone knackered a gearbox or clutch in a CEC though
watch this space........
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cadebytiger
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| posted on 23/1/07 at 12:53 PM |
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do you know the noise is not coming from the collector? Mine makes a similar noise until it is warm and the collector is a good fit
Rupert
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Marlon
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| posted on 23/1/07 at 10:02 PM |
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Todays update
Good evening all.
Well After another night in the garage I have this to report..... It still knocks/Rattles!
I have changed the rocker retaining spring round, knocked the timing back and danced a jig, all to no avail.
The noise is definately a Knocking sound and is at engine speed.
What do you think are the chances of the head gasket/me being at fault??
When I say head gasket, I mean too thin?? or mishaped (if i've knocked it)? or maybe I've just fitted it badly/out of line? I don't
know how, they are just thoughts??? It just seems funny to me that the noice starts after a gasket change!!
Thanks again for all your input it is much appreciated.
john.
Band Anyone?
Linky to SWMBO 's band
Linky to Brother in laws band
MKoc 1081
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mark chandler
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| posted on 23/1/07 at 10:37 PM |
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Its not unknown for poor quality head gaskets to protude slightly over the edge of the bore, as the edge material heats up it acts like a glow
plug.
So does it rattle on startup and keep rattling or only when warm and off choke.
If its constant then either an exhaust blow or something physical.
If its at engine speed then its unlikely to be electrical or cam related as these are every other revolution.
To completely islote anything at the top end with the engine running feed a feeler gauge beween the cam and rocker to reduce the gap, this will then
exclude anthing up top.
Make sure its not something stupid like the cambelt idler rattling or water pump ? try a adjusting the tension on the cam belt, remove the fan belt
and try an stop all things external such as alternator spinning where possible, noises have a strange habit of moving.
Also have a listen using a long screwdriver as a stethoscope and try and localise to one area, you will be surprised how effective this is.
Regards Mark
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Andy S
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 12:07 PM |
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To determine if its a mechanical problem - try the old screw driver in the ear stethescope test. - get a long shaft driver with a solid plastic handle
and place pointy side on the block and round plastic end on your ear - and move around the engine - dont stick it on/through and rotating parts though
If its mechanical you can time it as mentioned before to associated it with cam or crank and by sound level to locate it to head or crank case - or an
individual component - dizzy/waterpump/ ect.
Take a bit of practice -and there are specific mechanical scopes available for this type of diagnosis.
Just take your time listening and getting in tune/time with the engine.
Cheers
Andrew
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Andy S
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 02:37 PM |
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Also check for cracks in the exhaust manifold - hence the feel /string suggestion. Very possible with stainless steel manifoilds if you have one.
Cheers
Andrew
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02GF74
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| posted on 26/1/07 at 03:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
If its at engine speed then its unlikely to be cam related as these are every other revolution.
I don;t think it is as easy as that.
how can you really tell if a sound is coming at engine speed or half engine speed when idling - about 10 rev per sec?
Remember there are 4 cylinders so the tappets will make noise at 2x cam speed to add to the dificulty.
You need to use a rubber tube pushed into ear or a mechanics stephascope to isolate the noise.
can you run with the cam cover off and listen?
you torqued down the head bolts correctly?
disconnect the fan belt and run the engine from cold but - not for more that a few minutes -this will be enough time to ruel out water
pump/alternator.
remove spark plugs and turn engine slowly by hand - can you fell any notchiness or hear anything?
look at the spark plugs -do they tell you anything?
good luck.
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Marlon
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| posted on 27/1/07 at 07:32 PM |
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Saturdays tinkering!!
Right then, here we go again
It's now striped down again.
I tried the screwdriver stethascope and localised it to the block around the middle, it was a bit warm over the exhaust manifold as I found out as my
plasticy/rubbery type coat melted to it OOOPS!!!! never mind.
A friend of mine sugested that the sound was like a broken piston ring??? Now i've never heard owt like this before and given that it has been
sugested that it could also be a big or little end bearing I thought why not take it all apart AGAIN so right now the nose end of the motor is
2' in the air awaiting the pistons removing and checking.
Watch this space.........
Thanks again for all the sugestions.
john.
Band Anyone?
Linky to SWMBO 's band
Linky to Brother in laws band
MKoc 1081
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