MakeEverything
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 posted on 24/5/09 at 04:04 PM |
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The Dutton Saga continues....
So i finally got the Dutton home, and astarted playing - as you do.
The engine would not start no matter what i tried. New Points, condenser, plugs, leads and distributor cap helped, but it still wouldnt fire
correctly, almost like it was misfiring. Its not a fuel problem as originally suspected, and compressions tests have identified a 25psi drop on
cylinders 3 & 4 highlighting a possible head gasket failure or valve problem? Anyway....
Im at the stage now, where ill replace the coil, and if that doesnt work will look at taking the engine apart for a top end rebuild, and look at the
possibilities of putting the V6 in it....
Which brings me nicely to the next question;
Does anyone know what the length of a crossflow and gearbox are? I cant tell this unless i take the old one out, or jack the car up which i shouldnt
do at the moment because of a damaged shoulder.
I would like to try and avoid relocating the gear lever on the tunnel if possible, hence the question.
The next question, is what do i need to convert the 2.9 cologne V6 to carburettor? I have a megasquirt but carbs would be quicker to install.
Does a carburettor sit on the existing inlet manifold? I know ill need to plug the injector ports (maybe use injectors for water injection??) but i
need to know if i need a different inlet manifold.
Enough questions for one post...!
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 05:19 PM |
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Try a squirt of brake cleaner or easistart down the carb when cranking , don't pull the manual choke out if it has one . Manual open an auto
choke . It should fire up , if it doesn't you probably have ignition problems , plug leads on in the wrong order or incorrectly timed.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 05:23 PM |
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Take the gaiter/surround off the gear lever, you should be able to see the end of the gearbox through the hole, and see if any kind of extension has
ben fitted to the gear change, and where the gearbox finishes
John
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 05:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
Take the gaiter/surround off the gear lever, you should be able to see the end of the gearbox through the hole, and see if any kind of extension has
ben fitted to the gear change, and where the gearbox finishes
John
Good idea, ill try that, thanks.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 05:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Try a squirt of brake cleaner or easistart down the carb when cranking , don't pull the manual choke out if it has one . Manual open an auto
choke . It should fire up , if it doesn't you probably have ignition problems , plug leads on in the wrong order or incorrectly timed.
Thanks rusty. Ive already ruled out Fuelling as the issue. It is ignition. Leads are in order, and Points, Condenser and timing is good. Coil is
next for replacement.
[Edited on 24/5/09 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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mr henderson
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 06:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Try a squirt of brake cleaner or easistart down the carb when cranking , don't pull the manual choke out if it has one . Manual open an auto
choke . It should fire up , if it doesn't you probably have ignition problems , plug leads on in the wrong order or incorrectly timed.
Thanks rusty. Ive already ruled out Fuelling as the issue. It is ignition. Leads are in order, and Points, Condenser and timing is good. Coil is
next for replacement.
[Edited on 24/5/09 by MakeEverything]
You have tested for a good spark?
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 06:10 PM |
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quote:
You have tested for a good spark?
The Engine runs but intermittantly cuts out. The coil gets hot (hotter than ive experienced before). One minute it will tick over happily, then it
will cut out all of a sudden then not start for five minutes or so. Then the next time it starts, it "hunts" or oscillates.
[Edited on 24/5/09 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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thunderace
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 06:36 PM |
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Does anyone know what the length of a crossflow and gearbox are? I cant tell this unless i take the old one out, or jack the car up which i shouldnt
do at the moment because of a damaged shoulder.
4 speed or 5 speed ?
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Davey D
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 06:39 PM |
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If your coil is getting hot, then the car cuts out and wont start for 5 mins, then id say your coil is breaking down when it gets hot... thus it will
start again when it cools down 5 mins later
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 06:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Davey D
If your coil is getting hot, then the car cuts out and wont start for 5 mins, then id say your coil is breaking down when it gets hot... thus it will
start again when it cools down 5 mins later
Thats the conclusion i had drawn.
Its a 4 speed box currently.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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mr henderson
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 06:48 PM |
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When it cuts out, have you tried immediately testing for a good spark?
Trying to deduce faults rather than actually testing will often lead you up blind alleys.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 06:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
When it cuts out, have you tried immediately testing for a good spark?
Trying to deduce faults rather than actually testing will often lead you up blind alleys.
I agree, but for £12 i can eliminate it completely. Ill replace it anyway.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Xtreme Kermit
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 07:56 PM |
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Are you sure it's a 12v coil and not one that should run with a ballast resistor?
If you run a ballast resistor coil at 12v it will overheat 
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flibble
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 08:08 PM |
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Took my xflkow out a few weeks back so you're welcome to borrow bits to see if it helps, im only 40 miles from you, have pertronix electronic
ignition/coil etc all sitting about at the moment until I get round to selling them.
Lights failing a bit so excuse the piccie but the length is what you're after (mm):
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 08:26 PM |
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Fantastic, Thanks Flibble. Whats the spec of the engine and how much would you want for the lot?
Ill U2U my details.
rich.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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flibble
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 08:44 PM |
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Hehe, I have no idea what it's worth to be honest and I'd hate to over (or under!) price it.
I've got receipts of scary amounts from 500 miles ago for a 135bhp vulcan package + shiney new DHLA45 carb (2z40's wouldn't fit in
the engine bay so it mat well be under 135hp a bit), the pertronix kit that I bought and fitted and although I started it up I never drove it after
that.
I drove it home 35miles from where I bought it and got all excited about fitting a Saab engine as TBH I wasn't impressed by the xflow at all,
and, if indeed it does have near 135hp it didnt feel fast at all, I have spent 99% of my life riding fireblades/gixers etc so maybe I was hoping for
to much?
Anyway - if anyone has any suggestions on what it's worth, or if you just want to borrow bits - just post 
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 08:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flibble
Hehe, I have no idea what it's worth to be honest and I'd hate to over (or under!) price it.
I've got receipts of scary amounts from 500 miles ago for a 135bhp vulcan package + shiney new DHLA45 carb (2z40's wouldn't fit in
the engine bay so it mat well be under 135hp a bit), the pertronix kit that I bought and fitted and although I started it up I never drove it after
that.
I drove it home 35miles from where I bought it and got all excited about fitting a Saab engine as TBH I wasn't impressed by the xflow at all,
and, if indeed it does have near 135hp it didnt feel fast at all, I have spent 99% of my life riding fireblades/gixers etc so maybe I was hoping for
to much?
Anyway - if anyone has any suggestions on what it's worth, or if you just want to borrow bits - just post
Thats what worries me about;
A) Getting the engine ive got running
B) Sticking with 4 cylinders
Which is why im looking at possibilities of fast-tracking the V6 transplant. Im off bikes for now, but i too have had a Gixxer and TLR and a couple
of fast road cars.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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prawnabie
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 08:54 PM |
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Im contemplating a v6 transplant too! I just need to take some measurements to see if I can fit it all in!
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flibble
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 08:59 PM |
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quote:
Im contemplating a v6 transplant too! I just need to take some measurements to see if I can fit it all in!
It'll fit!
There may be more work/welding/angry grinding than you'd like but it anything will fit if you want it to
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 09:00 PM |
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A Ford 2.9 Cologne V6 from a Scorpio will go into the book chassis. It is tight around the bulkhead, but not impossible.
I can take some measurements of the engine and T9 box if you like?
OR - if i dont go for it, ill have the whole lot up for sale!
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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prawnabie
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 09:17 PM |
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Im going for a mazda 2.5!
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 09:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
Im going for a mazda 2.5!
The reason i chose the ford was parts availability and cost.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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mr henderson
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| posted on 24/5/09 at 09:35 PM |
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I fitted an essex v6 to a phaeton 2 a while ago. It was a 'y'reg, and that was a suffix, not a prefix
John
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 25/5/09 at 08:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
I fitted an essex v6 to a phaeton 2 a while ago. It was a 'y'reg, and that was a suffix, not a prefix
John
So how did it go John? What were the areas that required changing (If any)?
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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mr henderson
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| posted on 25/5/09 at 08:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by mr henderson
I fitted an essex v6 to a phaeton 2 a while ago. It was a 'y'reg, and that was a suffix, not a prefix
John
So how did it go John? What were the areas that required changing (If any)?
I'm not sure if my experience will help very much, because the modifications required were done early in the build, and were done mainly to
increase the legroom. I'm quite tall, and was unable to get into the demonstrator at the Dutton factory, let alone drive it.
Basically I moved the engine forward as far as it would go (which was quite a long way) and built a new floor and bulkhead from marine ply and
aluminium.
As long as there is enough width for the engine then you will be alright, as there is cetainly enough length. You may well need a hole in the middle
of the bonnet.
I used the standard Capri 3ltr manifolds and had an underslung exhaust system.
Would I use an essex or cologne v6 now? No, AFAIC, the Zetec 2 ltr is cheap, plentiful and easy to fit, it has 4 of what the v6 has 6 of, and only
needs one exhaust system.
John
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