austin man
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 08:24 PM |
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mapping a turbo engine,
Which is the best method to map by TPS or MAP
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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big_wasa
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 08:29 PM |
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Tps wont acount for boost
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madteg
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 08:39 PM |
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MAP
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austin man
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 08:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by madteg
MAP
Having problems with the mapping of a silvertop zetec has been mapped a couple of time but engine failure, engine is a good spec new turbo etc who
mapped yours madteg ?
the one I am talking about has been to Emerald and set up by Dave Walker but using TPS epistons seriously damaged so engine rebuilt new pistons etc
Dont wish the same to happen again
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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danny keenan
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 08:57 PM |
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andy
take it micks car didn't go so well. give me aring and il give you wayne the chip wizards number he will be able to help you
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ashg
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 08:58 PM |
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im amazed dave walker set it up on tps only he knows much better than that, the guy literally wrote the book on tuning efi!
[Edited on 6/7/2011 by ashg]
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 09:11 PM |
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Interesting question.
Are you running ITB or a single throttle body?
I have turbo and ITB and it is interesting. It turns out that if you run MAP only then the MAP signal doesn't reflect the air-flow changes that
you get with ITB opening. I have logs that show clear modulation of AFR with TPS where the MAP shows no such changes (see below).
I am therefore running blended (a MAP table and a TPS table, that are multiplied). This is a pain to set-up, but I have a few tricks (well basically
a big computer and some modeling software) and the AFR looks great.
I am told that if you use "multiply by MAP" then you can run with Alpha-N, but I haven't tried that yet.
I suspect with a single throttle body, the solution is to use MAP but I have no practical experience.
Matt
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austin man
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 09:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Interesting question.
Are you running ITB or a single throttle body?
I have turbo and ITB and it is interesting. It turns out that if you run MAP only then the MAP signal doesn't reflect the air-flow changes that
you get with ITB opening. I have logs that show clear modulation of AFR with TPS where the MAP shows no such changes (see below).
I am therefore running blended (a MAP table and a TPS table, that are multiplied). This is a pain to set-up, but I have a few tricks (well basically
a big computer and some modeling software) and the AFR looks great.
I am told that if you use "multiply by MAP" then you can run with Alpha-N, but I haven't tried that yet.
I suspect with a single throttle body, the solution is to use MAP but I have no practical experience.
Matt
Its the Nephews car a series 2 RS turbo with a 2 litre zetec I believe a single TPS
The Emerald set up are apparently all via TPS so new code needs to be written to enable MAP setting
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 09:28 PM |
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I don't know much about Emerald, but their website suggests it can take a MAP input.
Surprising that they can't use it to control the load, I would have thought that would be a minor software tweak.
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franky
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| posted on 6/7/11 at 09:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by danny keenan
andy
take it micks car didn't go so well. give me aring and il give you wayne the chip wizards number he will be able to help you
Never heard anything but good things about chip wizards(wayne that is).
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mark chandler
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| posted on 7/7/11 at 06:59 AM |
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MAP for me, datalogged then grouped around most used values.
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FASTdan
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| posted on 7/7/11 at 07:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Interesting question.
Are you running ITB or a single throttle body?
I have turbo and ITB and it is interesting. It turns out that if you run MAP only then the MAP signal doesn't reflect the air-flow changes that
you get with ITB opening. I have logs that show clear modulation of AFR with TPS where the MAP shows no such changes (see below).
I am therefore running blended (a MAP table and a TPS table, that are multiplied). This is a pain to set-up, but I have a few tricks (well basically
a big computer and some modeling software) and the AFR looks great.
Sorry can you elaborate on this a bit more - why is the ITB set up different to a single TB in terms of MAP behaviour? I only ask as I am involved
with making some bits (namely a plenum) for a set of jenvey's ready for turbo'ing on an ST170 engine.
Aside from the fact there's four seperate TB's I would expect each TB opening to give the same characteristics in terms of manifold
pressure as a single TB?
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 7/7/11 at 07:43 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by FASTdan
Sorry can you elaborate on this a bit more - why is the ITB set up different to a single TB in terms of MAP behaviour? I only ask as I am involved
with making some bits (namely a plenum) for a set of jenvey's ready for turbo'ing on an ST170 engine.
Aside from the fact there's four seperate TB's I would expect each TB opening to give the same characteristics in terms of manifold
pressure as a single TB?
With a single throttle body you have a nice big volume in the plenum which will average out the fluctuations in air flow and provide a stable MAP
signal.
With a throttle body per cylinder you have a tiny volume between the throttle and the inlet valves which obviously causes large changes in pressure
through the various engine cycles e.g. under small throttle openings vacuum will be high during the inlet stroke, but as soon as the valve is closed
air will be drawn past the throttle and the vacuum will disappear, or at least be considerably reduced. Therefore you only get a representative
pressure reading for a fraction of the time.
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BaileyPerformance
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| posted on 7/7/11 at 09:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by austin man
Which is the best method to map by TPS or MAP
Normally map, but i use TPS for off-boost and a MAP correction table for on boost using megasquirt 2
The best solution for throttle response, this is what Dave would have done i expect.
This is also what most manufactures do, the Audi TT is done as above.
Let me know if you need any help, FOC
www.baileyperformance.co.uk
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