Just
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| posted on 31/5/06 at 08:30 PM |
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Water leaking
I have a Tiger E1 Cat that I bought at the weekend. Nice car except for the water leak I discovered after I got home 
Anyway, having had the car up and taken a look it would appear that the water is coming from the centre spindle of the water pump but could also be
leaking out where the sump meets the block.
Replacing the water pump looks ok once I got the cam-belt cover off (although it looks like I will have to take the front springs out to get to it?)
but trying to replace the gaskett around the sump area looks major.
Any advice on replacing the water pump with the engine in and what I might be able to use to seal up the sump area would be appreciated.
Finally, do I need anything special to do the job tool-wise? Will a trolley jack be enough to get in to it - or am I better doing it from the top?
[Edited on 31/5/06 by Just]
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rayward
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| posted on 31/5/06 at 08:39 PM |
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hi,
i think it would be unlikely you have water leaking from the block/sump joint. there shouldn;t be any water behind there only oil!!!.
probably just running along from the pump.
you may need to say what engine you have for more detailed help.
Ray
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Just
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| posted on 31/5/06 at 08:42 PM |
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That's what I thought was strange - sorry it is a 1.8 pinto.
Also the water is around the spindle of the lowest of the belt-driven items which I am thinking might not be the water pump after all? Sorry, I am
just getting my head around engines again and am awaiting a haynes manual covering this engine.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 31/5/06 at 08:50 PM |
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Years since I did one but istr once the atlernator belt is off all that remains is 3 bolts holding the pump on.
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stevec
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| posted on 31/5/06 at 08:51 PM |
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While you are in there perhaps change the cam belt if you dont know its history.
I have a Jelly mould manual if you are after one.
[Edited on 31/5/06 by stevec]
[Edited on 31/5/06 by stevec]
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irvined
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| posted on 31/5/06 at 09:05 PM |
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Sounds like the water pump, from experience the water leaks down the block and drips of the lower most pully, or the join of the sump.
HTH
David
http://irvined.blogspot.com
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Hellfire
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| posted on 31/5/06 at 09:12 PM |
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I changed water pump on my '83 2.8i Capri with engine in... a struggle but did it. Only cost me £8 - 21 years ago.  Took about 1 hour to do
it... and a few knuckles.
Steve
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Just
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| posted on 31/5/06 at 10:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by stevec
While you are in there perhaps change the cam belt if you dont know its history.
I have a Jelly mould manual if you are after one.
Thanks Steve - the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner 1400 miles ago so I would assume it is ok?
I have a haynes manual for the Sierra on it's way from ebay so hopefully that will help me out - ta.
[Edited on 31/5/06 by Just]
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greggors84
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| posted on 31/5/06 at 10:11 PM |
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Make sure its not coming from further up the block, it could be leaking from the thermostat housing and trickling down.
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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Just
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| posted on 31/5/06 at 10:20 PM |
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Thanks for all the replies guys - will check it again tomorrow to see if I can track it down completely.
Now I have lost all the water out of the system - should I reconnect all the hoses and top up via the expansion tank slowly until it fills? Should I
run the engine breifly to get some water into the pump again and allow me to track the problem down? Can I run the engine without the expansion cap
on to try and avoid an airlock is this plain wrong?
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Just
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| posted on 1/6/06 at 12:07 PM |
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Also should have said that the water is dripping/trickling out even when the car is just sat there.
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trogdor
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| posted on 1/6/06 at 04:27 PM |
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u can run the engine ok without an expansion cap, it just won't pressurise. which u don't want at this stage!
i would connect the hoses up and fill up the engine and try and track down the leak with out the engine running first, then with the engine running to
confirm. is easier to locate leaks when its not running, as there is nothing to catch urself on.
i had this prob with my saab 96, the water appeared to be dripping off the bottom pulley but was atcually leaking from the water pump bearings! it was
completely wrecked!
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Just
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| posted on 1/6/06 at 05:17 PM |
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Sussed it - within 10 mins of entering the garage this time! It is the water pump, water is dripping out of the vent/weep hole - does this mean it is
scrap and needs replacing?
If so, where is best and what should I be asking for - I notice three types on the Burton page for instance. The one on the car has a cut and blocked
piece of pipe on it if that helps ID it. I am assuming I need the one with no power steering and no viscous fan?
Also, would this one do it or is it an earlier model;
Link
The current one has had red mastick on there - is that going to be a pain to get off (any tips)?
It looks like the cambelt can stay in place, is this the best option if it can - is there a way to tell if the cambelt is in good enough condition?
Looks like I will have to take out the front shocks to get the water pump out - but will post that whole can of worms in the Tiger forum.
[Edited on 1/6/06 by Just]
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DarrenW
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 08:39 AM |
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Best thing to do will be to take old one off and take to motor factors to match it up.
If you dont know when cam belt was last done replace it - hopefully it was new when rebuilt.
Old gasket sealer is dead easy to scrape off the block face. You can buy proper gasket scrapers which are cheap but i tend to just carefully use a
stanley knife blade or similar then quick clean up with emery tape.
Pintos are notorious for sludging up when past owners havent used anti freeze. Was your water clean looking? If a touch brown try flushing it through
befor erefilling properly. Took me a few times to get it clean ish.
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Just
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 10:03 AM |
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Thanks Darren, that was my thinking - halfords had two and one was a lot cheaper and looked very similar so here's hoping! The original water
was a bit cloudy looking and a fair bit of brown stuff has come out. I have put two lots of water through already - should I use 'flush'
or will a session with the hose do it?
Also is there a way of telling if the cambelt has been on there a while - I know the head came off 1400 miles ago but don't know if the cambelt
was re-used.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 10:05 AM |
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I *think* the only difference between the water pumps is that one is for viscous fan, the other isnt. Oh and you can get ally ones if you want, but
not worth it IMO.
I managed to get a brand new one off ebay a month or so ago for a couple of quid. the postage was more than my winning bid.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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DarrenW
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 10:09 AM |
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I bought some Forte flush for mine but not used it yet. i flushed with hose pipe in various directions over about 45 mins. Seemed to flush most of the
crap out and it has been better since. Will probs use the proper flush stuff next.
So in answer - try hose first, refill and run it for a while and see if it gets dirty again then consider flush stuff.
Cambelt - no real way of knowing. If you trust the seller try and ask them. For piece of mind tho change it then you know for sure. Get a good belt,
not a cheapo one. Gates Powergrip stick in my mind as being decent. If britishtrident reads this hopefully he will recommend what to use.
Im pleased you are getting sorted. Easy fix, youll be back on the road in no time. Just put it down to minor teething troubles that we all
encounter.
Oh - forgot to say, on exhaust side of block towards the back there is a block drain plug (mine is 205 block,water plug is straight down from no.4
spark plug, lower plug straight down from no. 4 exhaust port is oil gallery plug). Take this out when flushing. On mine it was crudded up, i guess
this is where the sludge sits and hardens up a touch over time. i had to poke a thin screwdriver through hole until water started to come out. I also
held hose end up to this and back flushed through top rad hose. Just keep flushing throu several pipes until you only get clean water. dont leave it
long until you fill with antifreeze after doing this (same night is best).
[Edited on 2/6/06 by DarrenW]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 10:10 AM |
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If possible, connect a hose to the bottom of the system and back-flush - very messy, but good for getting the last of the crud out.
David
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Just
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 10:40 AM |
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OK, thanks guys, will get the leak sorted and then try a bit of flushing through so I can put a/f in straight after. I will ask the guy how old the
cambelt is now that I don't feel he has sold me a pup  and change it if needs be. The pump that is on there currently must have come from
the sierra as it has a tube that has been blocked off (I assume for the viscous).
One last thing - how should I refill the system - just hook all the pipes up and pour in from the header tank? Is there any method to avoid airlocks
or is this not an issue on the Pintos?
[Edited on 2/6/06 by Just]
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DarrenW
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 11:17 AM |
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I hope you saw my edit ref block water jacket blanking plug.
Im not running a header tank. To refill i take top rad hose off and also hose to inlet manifold. I fill from inlet manifold hose first till it comes
out of rad hose. Connct back up then fill at rad. Run with rad cap off for a couple of cycles (till fan comes on then cool back down). Seems to work
for me. Some people get more success by jacking front of car up so that rad cap is high up. I guess with header tank this will be highest point and
air lock should bleed to that.
You could try doinga search as its been covered before i remember.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 12:36 PM |
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Remember that blocked off port on the water pump, well unblock it while you fill the system, it is there to bleed air out and it makes the filling job
much quicker an easier.
Good cambelt to use apparently is halfords own brand ones as "apparently" a mechanic friend told me that they are top quality so
diy'ers like us dont snap them when we overtighten them!
And yes, water from the vent hole on the pump means its knackered. The bearings wear first, this then wears the seal and the water gets past it and
escapes from the vent hole. Often happens then the car has been stood for a while which either results in the bearings getting damaged or sometimes
the pump spindle corroding and chewing the seal up when first started back up again.
Had the latter happen to a crankshaft oil seal after I power washed my racer down, next meeting a couple of months later the seal wrecked and it
started throwing oil out!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Just
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 12:42 PM |
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Thanks again guys, so if the air passes up to the header tank should I run it for a bit with the header tank cap off or does it not matter?
I assume the jelly mould haynes manual will cover replacing cambelt methods ok if needed?
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NS Dev
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 12:48 PM |
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Yep, running it with the cap off is no problem at all, get the levels right with it warmed up and the cap off, then put the cap on, drive it for a bit
and recheck that the level is still ok, may need a touch more adding then.
Yep, sierra manual will have belt change details, but its really a doddle on these engines, line the timing marks up, loosen off the tensioner, swap
the belts over, retension to haynes tightness description, and that's about it.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Just
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 06:25 PM |
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I feel a bit embarassed asking - but after slackening off the bottom bolt of the alternator and the top 'guide' bolt the alternator moves
freely but only about 1/8" and not enough to get the belt slack - am I missing something really silly?
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 2/6/06 at 06:51 PM |
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Slacken off the alternator mounting bolts at the bottom of the alternator IIRC
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