nitram38
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| posted on 17/8/06 at 08:56 AM |
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K Series Cooling Question
If I am not running a heater, do I link the heater pipes straight through or block them off?
Only I had overheating problems and my theory is that instead of the water going through the rad, it is bypassing it by going through the heater
loop.
I have removed the thermostat temporarily and clamped the pipe off and this seemed to help while stationary.
While I am at it I will be puting a bleed pipe from the rad header to the expansion tank. Hopefully this will cure the overheating.............if not
it is a new head gasket!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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caber
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| posted on 17/8/06 at 09:14 AM |
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K series? I am surprised you haven't bought your head gaskets in bulk!
Caber
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zilspeed
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| posted on 17/8/06 at 09:19 AM |
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The heater circuit is the bypass whilst the stat is closed.
Are you using a stat in the standard location ? i.e. on the return leg holding back icy water from the radiator ?
This is widey regarded as a bad thing, although your rad is at the back so not as bad.
I have a schematic somewhere and will try and find it.
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Humbug
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| posted on 17/8/06 at 12:12 PM |
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I've got no heater on mine, but I kept the loop where the heater would have been. I have had no overheating problems since I fitted the correct
pressurised expansion tank. When filling, though, it does need to be properly bled to get rid of airlocks.
Good luck - here's hoping it's NOT a head gasket
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nitram38
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| posted on 17/8/06 at 12:38 PM |
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At the moment I have the centre of the thermostat removed as I thought that it might be sticking.
Today I have added a bleed pipe to the aluminium pipe just before the top of the rad.
I need to buy some M8 samco silicon hose and a Y or T pipe to splice into the expansion tank.
I am keeping my fingers crossed that this will solve the problem.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/8/06 at 02:47 PM |
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You need a by-pass especially on a K series because of the thermostats unsual location. although it may help to drill a 1/8" bleed hole in the
valve plate of the stat.
The vital thing with K series engines to bled all the air ot when fill as the cooling system is complex and airlocks easily.
In the longer term plan to remove the conventional stat and install a PVT thermostat as fitted to the Rover 75 1.8 and MGTF --- fairly major plumbing
involved -- instructions out on the net on MGF and Lotus elise owners sites
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nitram38
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| posted on 17/8/06 at 03:17 PM |
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If the engine turns out to be shot (because it cooked a bit), instead of swapping it, I will probably uprate it to the 1.8 ltr anyway.
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davidwag
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| posted on 17/8/06 at 06:20 PM |
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Hi,
On a K series it is absolutely vital that the small bleed pipe at the cambelt end of the inlet manifold is clear.
On standard cars I use a punch to remove the little non return valve in the cylinder head end of this pipe.
If it is not clear then the head doesn't fill with water and the engine boils over.
On the heater I would us a bypass pipe with a restricter in it.
David
[Edited on 17/8/06 by davidwag]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/8/06 at 07:40 PM |
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1.8 is not a good choice it dosen't like to rev the way the 1.4 or 1.6 will problem is the heads are the same castings and valve port sizes are
the same. The K16 head was optiminised for the 1.4.
Standard Rover 75/25/45/Freelander 1.8 is 118ps
Standard 25/45 1.6 is 112 ps
1.4 K16 MPi is 104 ps
Another problem is the 1.8 is rare in the 45 or 25 most commonly available donor is the 75 which has a much more complex security system to deal
with.
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nitram38
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| posted on 17/8/06 at 08:25 PM |
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David, I will recheck the small pipe you talk of, to see that it is letting water through. I have plumbed this into the top of expansion tank as I
thought that it was another bleed pipe. I hope that this is correct!
I think that my main error was to not have a bleed pipe on the top hose/rad as per the original setup. I do have a connection from the exp tank to
the bottom hose though.
Hopefully I will not have to change the engine at all, but if I do I might aswell increase the power. I will take on board the comments on the 1.8.
It will come down to availability and cost of a replacement. Who knows, I might not even need to change the engine. Whatever I go for, it must be low
mileage or even reconditioned. My present engine is only 20K miles.
I also have thought about putting a heater control valve in the bypass so that in the winter I can restrict the water a little to help it warm up?
Also I think that having a bypass without any restrictor may lead to overheating as the water will find it easier to circulate through this pipe,
instead of taking the route through the radiator. With the heater valve I will be able to experiment.
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roadboy
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| posted on 18/8/06 at 01:52 PM |
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The thermostat is in the wrong place on the K series, the VHPD version used in the Exige uses a remote thermostat to overcome the problem. I have no
idea why the small bleed port on the end of the inlet manifold is blocked off as Rover fit pipe to it, anyway knock out the ballbearing to allow the
air to bleed from the head.
HTH
Ian
Jude Performance Services
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nitram38
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| posted on 19/8/06 at 07:14 AM |
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I have sorted it and I am embarassed!!!!!!
The fans on the rad were turning the wrong way!
The good bit is the engine is fine and I have carried out modifying the pipework so that there is a bleed off the rad to the expansion tank and I
have taken your advice and knocked the ball bearing out of the head bleed.
I can now feel that the water is circulating through the bleed pipes and now I am happy
I am taking it for ablast this morning before I put the ant-freeze in.
Thanks for all of your advice!!!!!!!!!!
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nitram38
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| posted on 19/8/06 at 09:21 AM |
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Bad news.....................the water does not overheat, but I have water in the oil.
Looks like a head gasket/skim!!!!!!!!
Anyone fancy a job????!!!!!!!!
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roadboy
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 07:42 AM |
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You might get away without a skim, the gaskets are crap & the rbber seals around the water & oil galleries give up.
Get a good quality head set with steel dowels & it should be OK.
HTH
Ian
Jude Performance Services
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nitram38
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 08:35 AM |
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Ian, hopefully you are right, but my friend at my local engine machine shop will check it for me first.
I have stripped the ancilleries and I am waiting for a cam locking tool to arrive (from ebay) so that I can remove the belt and finally the head
bolts.
Hopefully I will be able to reassemble it for the end of next week.
Martin
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 08:44 AM |
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Make sure that you make note of the position of the camshaft dowels in the camshaft drive gears before removing . Also you don't need the cam
locking tool to remove the head although it's a good idea to use it when rebuilding . Have known of a couple of occasions when people that
should know better have been unable to start the engine because the used the wrong dowel slots in the drive gears
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nitram38
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 09:56 AM |
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I have been told that I will have to remove the bottom pulley to show the crankshaft alignment marks, but the manual (haynes) says that all I have to
do is align the crankshaft outer pulley with the line on the plastic canbelt cover. This will ensure that the crank is 90 degees before TDC, but then
it goes on to show the 2 dots on the crank belt pulley.
Should I use the outer marks or the inner ones (which means removing the crank belt pulley)?
The belt has only done 60 miles and is ok so it does not need to come off.
As to the locking tool, doesn't it have to be in place to loosen the camshaft pulleys in order to undo the cam cover back plate?
Or can the head and pulleys/cam cover, be removed as one?
[Edited on 20/8/2006 by nitram38]
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 12:14 PM |
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Wouldn't use the locking tool to undo the pulley bolts it's only to set the cams in the correct position when timing belt is being
refitted . I use a sprocket holding tool that I made years ago out of a piece of scrap steel, just a couple of "fingers" that locate in
holes in sprockets with enough leverage to hold sprocket whilst bolt is undone . Believe Sealey may list one in their online catalogue but easy enough
to make . A couple of the head bolts catch on the cam when taking them out , if head is to be skimmed then the cams have to come out so I always take
them out when dismantling. Valves should be OK left in
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nitram38
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 01:01 PM |
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Cheers rusty.
I have built engines before, but the k series is a new one for me.
I have seen the sprocket "tool" in the haynes manual, so it looks like I will be busy with the hacksaw!
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 01:19 PM |
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If you can see the crankshaft pulley timing marks with the engine in your car then there is no need to remove the pulley . Not the easiest thing to
see on standard cars don't know about yours?
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nitram38
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 01:43 PM |
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The front crank pulley has an alignment mark on the plastic cam belt cover. I am hoping that this is accurate enough, but my theory is if the cams are
aligned and this mark is in the same place, then all I have to do is ensure the same on refitting.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 02:56 PM |
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Should be OK doing it that way , it's 90BTDC IIRC
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roadboy
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 04:34 PM |
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Line up the marks on the cam pulleys making sure which is inlet & exhaust, check position of crank pulley, mark with tipex if necessary.
Reassemble with marks aligned & recheck when belt is tensioned, they will run a tooth out no problem so make sure to recheck. We do these all
the time on Lotus Elises & are very familiar with them.
HTH
Ian
Jude Performance Services
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nitram38
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 05:40 PM |
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Cheers chaps!
The head is off and there are no obvious problems. I will get it checked tomorrow and reskimmed as necessary.
Watch this space!
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Winston Todge
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| posted on 20/8/06 at 06:02 PM |
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Interesting thread!
So reversing the fan solved the cooling problems then Martin?
Hope the heads alright and you get it all back together okay.
Chris.
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