flak monkey
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 06:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gregs
Flak - try running it with the lights off - guessing might be ht lead break down??, or just get a new set to rule out. Mate 911 had something similar
and it lit up like a fireworks display in the dark with the lid open.
New HT leads fitted, new dizzy cap, new rotor arm, new resistor type spar plugs. Every bit of hardware is brand new. Thats what really gets me.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 06:43 PM |
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Right, i see you are running fuel only. I trust you've got the coil negative side connected to the MS. Is there some other possible pick-up
point on the HH dizzy tat might be suitable and less noisy?
If you have a schematic of the dizzy, please post it, so we can have a look!
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flak monkey
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 06:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sebastiaan
I trust you've seen this: linky
I thought that is all you need to know. As far as I can see, the hardware changes should be very limited. What hardware are you running?
The tach spikes you are getting are normally closely related to the distributor RPM input option. Are you still running fuel only or fuel and spark?
You'll get it sorted out, don't worry!
I have seen that, however my ecu currently has twin coil drivers built in and I need to take all that out and revert it back to std then need to mod
it.
The stuff in that link doesnt work for MS Extra code apparently as it triggers from the wrong side of the pulse or something.
I am running fuel only!
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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flak monkey
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 06:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by sebastiaan
Right, i see you are running fuel only. I trust you've got the coil negative side connected to the MS. Is there some other possible pick-up
point on the HH dizzy tat might be suitable and less noisy?
If you have a schematic of the dizzy, please post it, so we can have a look!
Theres bugger all to it to be honest.
A positive feed which is taken from the +ve side of coil. And a trigger wire which goes to the neg side and to which my MS is connected for the rpm
input. The whole system grounds through the dizzy body. Tried a redundant earth on it with no difference.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:20 PM |
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Has it got a seperate electronics box, or is everything contained in the dizzy itself?
I expect you are getting false triggers on coil ringing, but cannot be sure. You'll need a scope (and a knowledgeable operator) to know for
sure.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:24 PM |
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David,
Is the shaft a good fit in the dizzy, or does it rattle around?
I'm wondering whether if it's flapping around at speed and messing up the timing.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:25 PM |
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Its a new dizzy and is all tight. I had it out last week to check. Its one of the first things I did after starting to think it wasnt the MS causing
the problem.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:29 PM |
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David , if your ecu has 2 coil drivers do you need to run an Edis unit? can you just wire up and fit a coil pack off something like a Mondeo or Focus?
Your lucky , my car developed problems on the Tuesday before Stoneleigh a couple of years ago , found the cause about 10.30pm on the Friday. The new
TPS I had fitted was faulty , had to use another car to go.
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turbodisplay
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:33 PM |
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Its contact bounce.
The points at a certain speed bounce so it makes more than one on/off transition. So instead of one pulse many occur.
It then seems the engine is running faster than it is. A low pass filter using a resistor/ capacitor combo may filter this bounce. another possibliity
it using a hall effect sensor to drive the rpm signals.
Darren
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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flak monkey
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by turbodisplay
Its contact bounce.
The points at a certain speed bounce so it makes more than one on/off transition. So instead of one pulse many occur.
It then seems the engine is running faster than it is. A low pass filter using a resistor/ capacitor combo may filter this bounce. another possibliity
it using a hall effect sensor to drive the rpm signals.
Darren
Theres no points to bounce!
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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flak monkey
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
David , if your ecu has 2 coil drivers do you need to run an Edis unit? can you just wire up and fit a coil pack off something like a Mondeo or Focus?
Your lucky , my car developed problems on the Tuesday before Stoneleigh a couple of years ago , found the cause about 10.30pm on the Friday. The new
TPS I had fitted was faulty , had to use another car to go.
My concern is over their reliability. I might give it a go and see if I can make it work with the coil drivers which are built in. The dwell settings
cause me some concern too as I havent a clue!
I will have to pull my ECU out and figure out what internal stuff needs doing to use the coil drivers. I think I just need to put the input circuit
back to how it should be then I will be sorted!
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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melly-g
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:37 PM |
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david
I've got a couple of spare dizzy's you could borrow to see if this helps if you haven't already tried that!
Richard.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by melly-g
david
I've got a couple of spare dizzy's you could borrow to see if this helps if you haven't already tried that!
Richard.
Hi Richard, that would be awsome if I could borrow one! If that cures the problem, not only does it pin point my problem so I can approach H&H and
say there is something wrong with the dizzy, but it also means that I can have a driveable car again! Then I may just live with the performance hit
for stoneleigh and then fiddle with the spark afterwards. A learning experience for the duratec!
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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mookaloid
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:45 PM |
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Is the coil matched to the H&H dizzy? There are different coils for electronic ignition and points - maybe ask H&H if the one you are using is
compatible?
good luck with it mate 
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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flak monkey
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:48 PM |
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Coil and dizzy were both supplied by H&H so I assume they match
I know I'll fix it. And I think the way forward is to try a std dizzy, knowing that it will cause issues of its own by not allowing enough idle
advance and getting points bounce at high rpm just to eliminate that side of the problem.
If that cures it then speak to H&H about fixing my rather expensive dizzy!
In the mean time I will have a play with edis/coil drivers and go spark as well with the MS.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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gregs
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
David , if your ecu has 2 coil drivers do you need to run an Edis unit? can you just wire up and fit a coil pack off something like a Mondeo or Focus?
Your lucky , my car developed problems on the Tuesday before Stoneleigh a couple of years ago , found the cause about 10.30pm on the Friday. The new
TPS I had fitted was faulty , had to use another car to go.
My concern is over their reliability. I might give it a go and see if I can make it work with the coil drivers which are built in. The dwell settings
cause me some concern too as I havent a clue!
I will have to pull my ECU out and figure out what internal stuff needs doing to use the coil drivers. I think I just need to put the input circuit
back to how it should be then I will be sorted!
David
Have a looksie here for dwell info http://www.extraefi.co.uk/dwell.htm
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Lars
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 07:55 PM |
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I can tell you the changes I made for EDIS, but I built from scratch using MS1 v3, so not sure it would be much help.
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Lars
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 08:01 PM |
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Here they are (seems I saved the website)
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#edis
Not sure if you have seen that before, but it worked for me
Its part of the msextra manual
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mookaloid
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 08:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Coil and dizzy were both supplied by H&H so I assume they match
Fair enough
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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jacko
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 08:44 PM |
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I have not read all the posts but could it be a duf spark plug breaking down over 3500rpm
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flak monkey
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 08:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jacko
I have not read all the posts but could it be a duf spark plug breaking down over 3500rpm
They are a new set, but I could always try another set just to check I guess!
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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mr henderson
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| posted on 15/4/09 at 09:27 PM |
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One thing I've learned over the years is that when difficult to rtrace problems arise you must check EVERYTHING, and take nothing for
granted.
Years ago I had a car that would stop after it had been running for a while. Classic overheating issue, probably something in the ignition circuitry
breaking down when it was hot.
Turned out in the end to be a bit of crud in the float chamber, every now and then it would block the fuelway into the carburettor. Then, when the car
had been stopped for a while it would come out again.
Check everything
John
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flak monkey
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| posted on 16/4/09 at 04:45 PM |
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OK, just changed the plugs and no difference.
So the list of tried things is now:
New dizzy cap and rotor arm
New plug leads
2 new sets of plugs
Redundant earthing of distributor
Rewiring dizzy trigger and power cables independantly and together
Tweaked internals of megasquirt as suggested by several people
Checked all earths and power feeds to all ignition system
All of which is to no avail.
Trying a points dizzy tomorrow. If that doesnt fix it the only ignition system part which wont have been changed is the coil. (Worth trying?).
David
PS anyone need a set of pinto plugs? Only run for 5 mins? Lol
[Edited on 16/4/09 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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jase380
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| posted on 17/4/09 at 08:14 PM |
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If you can get to west yorks, i've just bought an mk with a 2.1 pinto on a single 48 dellorto carb, you can try the carb or any other bits that
might help.
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Staple balls
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| posted on 17/4/09 at 08:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
PS anyone need a set of pinto plugs? Only run for 5 mins? Lol
I'll take them, u2u me 
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