Keith Weiland
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 06:50 PM |
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Engine Question?
As you may or may not know, I have bought a Haynes Roadster project off of MDC of the Haynes Forum which included a mostly complete chassis with most
of the suspension bits and loads of bolts and fasteners etc. (and a very nice job he has done so far I should add)
What it also included was a Ford Pinto 2L engine with an RS2000 manifold and twin weber 40s. The engine as far as I know is basically stock and I have
no real idea what condition it is in internally.
Now my dilemma is that I was planning on buying 2L Zetec engine for the car as it seemed to be the easiest option as I have very little car engine
experience and I figured I could get a good amount of power with very little money or effort.
But now that I have this Pinto my question is to get say 160 HP which option is going to be the cheapest taking into account that I could probably
manage to strip and rebuild the pinto with the right tools but dont have any tools other than your usual spanners and socket set etc. and I dont
really know what I would need to do to get that sort of power out of a pinto. Also taking into account that I really like to look of the Pinto engine
when cleaned up with nicely polished intake and carbs etc.
Basically I guess I am asking how hard it is to get 160hp or so out of the pinto compared with getting the same out of a zetec without involving an
engine machine shop or if I do without costing an arm and a leg.
Also if I did go with a Zetec what could I get for the Pinto plus the Manifold and carbs?
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coozer
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:03 PM |
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My 1.8 zetec with 2L cams and ZX9R carbs gave 155bhp.
I reckon a 2L with carbs will give 165bhp then a bit of tuning and lumpy carbs 200bhp is not far away.
Much cheaper than tuning a Pinto.
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:03 PM |
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Nothing you cant do at home.
For 160bhp you would be looking at the following mods:
FR33 cam kit or equivalent (often come up on ebay) with vernier pulley
Basic head work which is doable at home. Open out the ports as detailed in Des Hamills book. Std sized valves.
Twin 40s will flow enough air for 160bhp with 36mm chokes (they are available or you could bore your current ones out in the lathe)
Thats about it to be honest. Electronic igntion would be a good idea, but not all that necessary. Your stock dizzy would need modifying to give you
enough advance at idle without giving too much at revs.
Everything after that would help, but give you no more power. E.g. lightened flywheel etc.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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james h
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:17 PM |
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Still waiting for the first BEC comment.... 
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carpmart
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:19 PM |
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Even easier is to leave it standard (worth taking the head off for a de-coke and new head gasket) and then use forced induction to get the power you
want. Its not complicated to achieve a turbo set-up! Lots of threads on turboing pinto's on www.turbosport.co.uk
Also, feel free to PM me, happy to have a chat if you would like!
[Edited on 2/3/09 by carpmart]
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack 
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:29 PM |
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The Pinto itself wont be worth a great deal if it is standard, but the twin 40's / manifold, and the RS2000 bellhousing will both fetch good
money on ebay / here. Is the Pinto the better 205 block version?? This would be preferable if you do decide to look at tuning it to get around
160bhp.
With the limited tools and experience of rebuilding / tuning an engine though, i'd say go the Zetec route as Coozer says, with bike carbs and
megajolt. Saves you from all the "boat anchor in your car" jokes if nothing else which has got to be worth a few quid!! 
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:31 PM |
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The boat anchor jokes are fun, just makes people cry with zetecs when you leave them behind with a pinto powered car
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Keith Weiland
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:32 PM |
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@ Coozer - That is what I originally thought but then I already have the Pinto so I have to add the cost of the Zetec on to the total cost. I guess a
decent second hand Zetec could be had for £150 or so?
@Flak monkey - I don't know if I would be up to porting the heads at home. I would probably screw that up. Are you saying that 160bhp is about
tops in the pinto without serious money?
@James - I am not even contemplating BEC. I want an easy to drive, torquey car with reverse.
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Keith Weiland
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
Even easier is to leave it standard (worth taking the head off for a de-coke and new head gasket) and then use forced induction to get the power you
want. Its not complicated to achieve a turbo set-up! Lots of threads on turboing pinto's on www.turbosport.co.uk
Also, feel free to PM me, happy to have a chat if you would like!
Ah, that sounds interesting but what sort of money are we talking? Also how quick is the power available with a turbo and what sort of power for that
money?
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:38 PM |
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Once you get to 160-180bhp it starts getting expensive. But it will need head work.
Having said that big valve race heads come up on ebay regularly and go very cheaply!
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith Weiland
quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
Even easier is to leave it standard (worth taking the head off for a de-coke and new head gasket) and then use forced induction to get the power you
want. Its not complicated to achieve a turbo set-up! Lots of threads on turboing pinto's on www.turbosport.co.uk
Also, feel free to PM me, happy to have a chat if you would like!
Ah, that sounds interesting but what sort of money are we talking? Also how quick is the power available with a turbo and what sort of power for that
money?
I was thinking of doing similar but with supercharging, no turbo lag and 200bhp on a std engine...
Mini superchargers are the way forward. The duratec will probably get one yet!
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Keith Weiland
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:47 PM |
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I suppose both Turbo chargers and super chargers can be fitted to a zetec too but dont superchargers require the compression ratio to be altered?
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carpmart
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith Weiland
quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
Even easier is to leave it standard (worth taking the head off for a de-coke and new head gasket) and then use forced induction to get the power you
want. Its not complicated to achieve a turbo set-up! Lots of threads on turboing pinto's on www.turbosport.co.uk
Also, feel free to PM me, happy to have a chat if you would like!
Ah, that sounds interesting but what sort of money are we talking? Also how quick is the power available with a turbo and what sort of power for that
money?
A first stage turbo charged pinto can be accomplished quite cheaply. Common way is to use injection system of a Granada (got one of these £?),
coupled to a Janspeed manifold (I sold a spare I had for £150 before Christmas) and a small turbo T3 size(£100ish), an intercooler off a cossie (£20)
and some pipework (£50) and off you go!. In a light car, with a small turbo, any discernible lag is not very noticable. 0.5bar (7psi approx) is fine
on standard internals. This should give you a genuine 150bhp and tons of torque!
The next stage is even more fun and the power you can get up to with 8valve pinto's is pretty astounding!
Like I say, drop me a PM if you are genuinely interested and I will talk you through what I have done (a bit different to above) and give you some
pointers!
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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carpmart
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith Weiland
I suppose both Turbo chargers and super chargers can be fitted to a zetec too but dont superchargers require the compression ratio to be altered?
Not on modest boost. 
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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coozer
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 07:58 PM |
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I've had 5 zetecs recently,
No. 1 - 1.8 for £200, original SVA engine in my car.
No. 2 - 1.8 for 99p (ebay)
No. 3 - 1.8 for £10 (ebay)
No. 4 - 2L for nothing.... put the cams in No. 1
No. 5 - ST170 for £450 which is in the car now.
The last time I was in the salvage yard they had an R reg Mondeo and the bloke said "everything under the bonnet for £200 mate"
MOT failed 2L Mondeo in the yellow paper for £100 recently.
All cheap as chips, cheaper than keeping a Pinto going, they are ancient now and even the zetec was stopped 8 years ago now. Only the ST and RST
zetecs survived after that.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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Keith Weiland
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 08:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
quote:
Originally posted by Keith Weiland
quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
Even easier is to leave it standard (worth taking the head off for a de-coke and new head gasket) and then use forced induction to get the power you
want. Its not complicated to achieve a turbo set-up! Lots of threads on turboing pinto's on www.turbosport.co.uk
Also, feel free to PM me, happy to have a chat if you would like!
Ah, that sounds interesting but what sort of money are we talking? Also how quick is the power available with a turbo and what sort of power for that
money?
A first stage turbo charged pinto can be accomplished quite cheaply. Common way is to use injection system of a Granada (got one of these £?),
coupled to a Janspeed manifold (I sold a spare I had for £150 before Christmas) and a small turbo T3 size(£100ish), an intercooler off a cossie (£20)
and some pipework (£50) and off you go!. In a light car, with a small turbo, any discernible lag is not very noticable. 0.5bar (7psi approx) is fine
on standard internals. This should give you a genuine 150bhp and tons of torque!
The next stage is even more fun and the power you can get up to with 8valve pinto's is pretty astounding!
Like I say, drop me a PM if you are genuinely interested and I will talk you through what I have done (a bit different to above) and give you some
pointers!
Thanks, I will weigh up my options and my money and when the time comes I will definitely PM you. I don't want to take up too much of anyones
time until I have a clear picture in my head of what I can do for what kind of money. The budget is tight at the minute so value for money is king.
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Keith Weiland
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 08:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
I've had 5 zetecs recently,
No. 1 - 1.8 for £200, original SVA engine in my car.
No. 2 - 1.8 for 99p (ebay)
No. 3 - 1.8 for £10 (ebay)
No. 4 - 2L for nothing.... put the cams in No. 1
No. 5 - ST170 for £450 which is in the car now.
The last time I was in the salvage yard they had an R reg Mondeo and the bloke said "everything under the bonnet for £200 mate"
MOT failed 2L Mondeo in the yellow paper for £100 recently.
All cheap as chips, cheaper than keeping a Pinto going, they are ancient now and even the zetec was stopped 8 years ago now. Only the ST and RST
zetecs survived after that.
ok so what sort of power are you getting from the st170 and what have you had to do to it to get that power?
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Keith Weiland
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 08:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
The Pinto itself wont be worth a great deal if it is standard, but the twin 40's / manifold, and the RS2000 bellhousing will both fetch good
money on ebay / here. Is the Pinto the better 205 block version?? This would be preferable if you do decide to look at tuning it to get around
160bhp.
With the limited tools and experience of rebuilding / tuning an engine though, i'd say go the Zetec route as Coozer says, with bike carbs and
megajolt. Saves you from all the "boat anchor in your car" jokes if nothing else which has got to be worth a few quid!!
Just had a look, the engine appears to be a 1970 model it has 20 on the block not 205 and also has 70HM6015B-A. Is it even worth messing with?
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flak monkey
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 08:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith Weiland
Just had a look, the engine appears to be a 1970 model it has 20 on the block not 205 and also has 70HM6015B-A. Is it even worth messing with?
Thats antique that
Probably best going the zetec route....even better duratec or is this getting confusing now?
The ST170 engine is basically a zetec engine with VVT... in a kitcar unless you have the VVT working, i.e. you are running an ECU which can control
it, you'll be looking around 130-140bhp (same as std 2 litre zetec)
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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carpmart
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 08:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Keith Weiland
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
The Pinto itself wont be worth a great deal if it is standard, but the twin 40's / manifold, and the RS2000 bellhousing will both fetch good
money on ebay / here. Is the Pinto the better 205 block version?? This would be preferable if you do decide to look at tuning it to get around
160bhp.
With the limited tools and experience of rebuilding / tuning an engine though, i'd say go the Zetec route as Coozer says, with bike carbs and
megajolt. Saves you from all the "boat anchor in your car" jokes if nothing else which has got to be worth a few quid!!
Just had a look, the engine appears to be a 1970 model it has 20 on the block not 205 and also has 70HM6015B-A. Is it even worth messing with?
There is little difference in the blocks. The 20 is valued in historic racing circles and is worth a bit more than a 205 block (not that either is
worth that much!)
[Edited on 2/3/09 by carpmart]
You only live once - make the most of it!
Radical Clubsport, Kwaker motor
'94 MX5 MK1, 1.8
F10 M5 - 600bhp Daily Hack
Range Rover Sport - Wife's Car
Mercedes A class - Son's Car
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Keith Weiland
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 08:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Thats antique that
Probably best going the zetec route....even better duratec or is this getting confusing now?
The ST170 engine is basically a zetec engine with VVT... in a kitcar unless you have the VVT working, i.e. you are running an ECU which can control
it, you'll be looking around 130-140bhp (same as std 2 litre zetec)
David
The duratec is the Mazda engine right? I was looking to find one but they seem phenomenally expensive at the minute. I assume they will get cheaper as
time goes by and may be a good candidate for an upgrade in the future.
I would like to spend less than say £800 on the engine in total so I think the 2.0 zetec is probably my best best thinking about it. Could I possibly
get nearer 200bhp with a zetec for 800 including the engine cost?
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 08:50 PM |
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[Ducks for cover]have you considered other engines? I picked up a 180 horse motor for 150 quid last night. there are a few cheaper ways to 200
hp[/Ducks for cover]
Build Blog
Build Photo Album
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Keith Weiland
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 08:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
quote:
Originally posted by Keith Weiland
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
The Pinto itself wont be worth a great deal if it is standard, but the twin 40's / manifold, and the RS2000 bellhousing will both fetch good
money on ebay / here. Is the Pinto the better 205 block version?? This would be preferable if you do decide to look at tuning it to get around
160bhp.
With the limited tools and experience of rebuilding / tuning an engine though, i'd say go the Zetec route as Coozer says, with bike carbs and
megajolt. Saves you from all the "boat anchor in your car" jokes if nothing else which has got to be worth a few quid!!
Just had a look, the engine appears to be a 1970 model it has 20 on the block not 205 and also has 70HM6015B-A. Is it even worth messing with?
There is little difference in the blocks. The 20 is valued in historic racing circles and is worth a bit more than a 205 block (not that either is
worth that much!)
[Edited on 2/3/09 by carpmart]
So what could I hope to get for the engine, also what are the carbs and the manifold really worth? Would I be crazy to expect £250 out of the lot?
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Keith Weiland
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 08:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
[Ducks for cover]have you considered other engines? I picked up a 180 horse motor for 150 quid last night. there are a few cheaper ways to 200
hp[/Ducks for cover]
Yea I considered it but I really want an easy to drive car with a nice torquey motor. I also like reverse gear and don't want a lot of hassle to
get it.
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liam.mccaffrey
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| posted on 2/3/09 at 09:07 PM |
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its a vovlo 5 cylinder, plenty torque @ 230 NM
you thought I was going to suggest a bike engine didn't you
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Build Photo Album
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