Jasongray5
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 03:18 PM |
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Which is better, throttle bodies or carbs?
I have finaly caved in and accepted that CEC is the way to go.
Im going for a zetec 1.8 or 2.0.
Just interested to know the main differences with using bike carbs or tb's?
And a rough cost for each installation?
Cheers guys Jas Gray
How hard can it be?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33261515@N03/sets/72157611049241239/
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blakep82
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 03:19 PM |
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carbs for simplicity, tbs for economy is how i see it basically.
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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nick205
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 03:23 PM |
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TBs might cost a little more, but ultimately they should give better economy, smoother running and more scope for tuning. unlike carbs they're
also more likely to stay tuned once set-up.
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coozer
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 03:23 PM |
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Carbs for cost, can be set up to give very good MPG as well...
I'm getting more convinced though TB's will give me more go...
Maybe another trip to Bogg Brothers during my forced rest period to get the definitive...
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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whitestu
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 03:24 PM |
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quote:
carbs for simplicity, tbs for economy is how i see it basically.
From what people have posted about TBs, bike carbs seem to be at least as economical.
I think power / responsiveness across the rev range is the theoretical advantage of TBs, but from my limited experience bike carbs seem as good if set
up right.
Carbs are much cheaper as you don't need a Megasquirt etc. to control them.
Stu
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blakep82
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 03:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by whitestu
quote:
carbs for simplicity, tbs for economy is how i see it basically.
From what people have posted about TBs, bike carbs seem to be at least as economical.
I think power / responsiveness across the rev range is the theoretical advantage of TBs, but from my limited experience bike carbs seem as good if set
up right.
Carbs are much cheaper as you don't need a Megasquirt etc. to control them.
Stu
good to know, coz i've got bike carbs 
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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whitestu
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 03:33 PM |
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quote:
good to know, coz i've got bike carbs
Last time I did a check my Zetec on ZX6R carbs did about 38 mpg on a 2/3 motorway, 1/3 cross country run.
Probably a lot less on my recent track day!
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blakep82
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 03:39 PM |
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thats not bad. i'm hopeless with electronics and electrics, so i decided to go with carbs for installation ease, but trading off economy, but it
compares pretty good with efi. happy with that
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Jasongray5
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 04:07 PM |
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Cheers guys!
How much of a problem are emissions going to be come IVA time with carbs?
How hard can it be?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33261515@N03/sets/72157611049241239/
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big_wasa
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 04:22 PM |
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Cost comes down as work goes up.
If money is no limit than look at an of the shelf Tb Kit from say webcon ~£2000 That will give you 155bhp on a 1.8 zetec
How much do you want to spend and how much power do you want ?
For about £50 you can use the standard ford ecu. That will give you around 120bhp on a 1.8 
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big_wasa
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 04:27 PM |
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you will need a pre aug 1995 silver top to pass iva with carbs. Well you will need a cat anyway and it wont like carbs
[Edited on 1/6/09 by big_wasa]
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mark chandler
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 04:53 PM |
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At the risk of sounding boring, TB's are best, get a set from a big bike ~ £80 from Ebay, make a manifold to suit ~ £10 or buy one ~£250 then
bolt on a control system, Megasquirt/VEMS for us poorer folk which adds another £250, for the rich ones that want a name then Emerald adds ~£750
Carbs will save you some as no control is required, difference in driving is not huge if both lots are well set up, TB's are more instantaneous
but will you really notice....
The joy of TB’s is that as you tweak the engine you tweak the system for free and keep your hands clean, with carbs you are into jets and screws so
although more involved to get correct (people will disagree here, you can spend days with a laptop and get nowhere) its still all good.
At the end of the day you are plucking off a restrictive induction system and putting in an unrestrictive one, so it will go better either way.
Regards Mark
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Steve G
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 05:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
you will need a pre aug 1995 silver top to pass ive with carbs. Well you will need a cat anyway and it wont like carbs
[Edited on 1/6/09 by big_wasa]
Hundreds of cars have passed SVA with carbs and a catalytic converter at the post Aug 95 emissions levels. They just need careful tuning at the
specific rev ranges, ie tickover and approx 2500 fast idle. Still, TB's should always give the potential for optimising power and economy over
carbs - it just depends how carefully they are mapped.
Megasquirt / microsquirt and the increased cost of TB's and associated parts will at an educated guess mean a £300 to £500 premium over the cost
of a bike carb setup. As stated though - its likely to stay in tune better, although bike carbs are way better than traditional DCOE / DHLA twin
sidedraught carbs in this respect anyway.
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jpindy3
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 05:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasongray5
Cheers guys!
How much of a problem are emissions going to be come IVA time with carbs?
mate dont worrie about that!i did i had my iva test 2weeks ago,i have a tuned pinto on zx9r carbs,on the emishons test it didnt even show 1%,it will
be fine
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balidey
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 05:53 PM |
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Which is better, throttle bodies or carbs?
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blakep82
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 07:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jpindy3
quote:
Originally posted by Jasongray5
Cheers guys!
How much of a problem are emissions going to be come IVA time with carbs?
mate dont worrie about that!i did i had my iva test 2weeks ago,i have a tuned pinto on zx9r carbs,on the emishons test it didnt even show 1%,it will
be fine
yep, another one of those myths!
carbs can't pass s/iva, seatbelts MUST be E marked, etc etc
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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big_wasa
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 08:15 PM |
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Hmm I am not saying a car wont pass with carbs, mine has a big set of weber carbs.
I am saying a post 95 engine will need a cat and long term the mixture being less adjustable than Fi will bugger the cat.
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mr henderson
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 08:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I am saying a post 95 engine will need a cat and long term the mixture being less adjustable than Fi will bugger the cat.
Very true, I expect most people take the cat off after the SVA, and if the car is a Q reg then it shouldn't be a problem afterwards.
The regulations have quite a few loopholes, I wonder whether they will start to get closed as the IVA thing develops
John
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mr henderson
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 08:21 PM |
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With each system working at its optimum (how often does that happen in the real world?) fuel injection will always have the edge, because carbs need a
restriction (venturi) in the airflow to work, whereas throttle bodies don't
John
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RK
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| posted on 1/6/09 at 11:03 PM |
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I think it has been mentioned but worth saying again: if you go TBs, you can use the existing wiring loom. If you want carbs, you lose this option,
and your life suddenly becomes more complicated. On the other hand, you need a lot less wires with carbs. It strikes me as something to do later on.
Just my opinion of course.
[Edited on 1/6/09 by RK]
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stevegough
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| posted on 2/6/09 at 08:14 PM |
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one more thing to consider - you may not be too bothered about economy - after all, its a sports car you are building, but remember one thing - as
these cars don't have a large fuel tank, one doing 17 mpg will only go 85 miles before you are sweating on finding the next garage .........
and if your really hoofing it around the lanes, it may not get that far.....
My engine is an XE - and I am sticking to the original injectors (if I can shoe - horn the lump in to the chassis, that is)(see my post under Luego)
Luego Locost C20XE.
Build start: October 6th 2008.
IVA passed Jan 28th 2011.
First drive Feb 10th 2011.
First show: Stoneleigh 1st/2nd May 2011.
'Used up' first engine may 3rd 2011!
Back on the road with 2nd engine may 24th
First PASA mad drive 26/7/11
Sold to Mike in Methyr Tydvil 19/03/14
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coozer
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| posted on 2/6/09 at 08:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
mate dont worrie about that!i did i had my iva test 2weeks ago,i have a tuned pinto on zx9r carbs,on the emishons test it didnt even show 1%,it will
be fine
yep, another one of those myths!
carbs can't pass s/iva, seatbelts MUST be E marked, etc etc
Well, have to disagree, mine passed SVA with carbs, unadjusted, straight off the bike. No cat.
Setup later made them much better and now on my ST170 give 40mpg if I keep it out the VVT zone..
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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blakep82
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| posted on 2/6/09 at 08:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
mate dont worrie about that!i did i had my iva test 2weeks ago,i have a tuned pinto on zx9r carbs,on the emishons test it didnt even show 1%,it will
be fine
yep, another one of those myths!
carbs can't pass s/iva, seatbelts MUST be E marked, etc etc
Well, have to disagree, mine passed SVA with carbs, unadjusted, straight off the bike. No cat.
Setup later made them much better and now on my ST170 give 40mpg if I keep it out the VVT zone..
nooo, i'm agreeing with you!
i was ultimately responding to a post with said a car on carbs won't pass sva, i'm saying thats a myth, and they CAN pass just as well as
a efi car can
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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