jpindy3
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 02:54 PM |
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new bottom end
right im building a new bottom end,this was the plan anyway but i wasnt going to do it for a while,i was going to turbo the vulcan engine dropping the
cr so it could take some boost,but after that balls up i really dont think turboing it now is a good idea,its a fine line turboing a engine with cast
pistons in,and i dont think it will be worth it now it may be damaged,
so i have a 202 block witch im getting rebored,and i have just payed for some new cossie pistons and rods,
has anyone done this convershon,
i know i need to fit a cossie oil pump as the pinto one dont have a spray bar to spray the bottom of the pistons,
can any one give me any pointers..
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omega0684
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 03:24 PM |
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mate if your going to do that get a 205 block, especially if you intend to turbo it, u2u mercd1 he has done a pinto with cossie bottom end.
don't bother buying a cossie crank just use the pinto one and get more dowels put in the flywheel end.
[Edited on 22/6/09 by omega0684]
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jpindy3
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 03:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega0684
mate if your going to do that get a 205 block, especially if you intend to turbo it, u2u mercd1 he has done a pinto with cossie bottom end.
don't bother buying a cossie crank just use the pinto one and get more dowels put in the flywheel end.
[Edited on 22/6/09 by omega0684]
err why a 202 is stronger,and low cr
engine number starting with NA is low cr so it a good start
[Edited on 22/6/09 by jpindy3]
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mookaloid
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 03:51 PM |
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As above use a 205 block for starters.
How much power do you want? there may be much cheaper ways of doing it 
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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mookaloid
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 04:04 PM |
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202 is even heavier than 205
it's a low CR ford transit block so I guess it's ok for a turbo installation.
I can't help thinking that there's a better/lighter/cheaper way of achieving more power than building a pinto from scratch and then adding
the turbo.....
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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flak monkey
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 04:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
I can't help thinking that there's a better/lighter/cheaper way of achieving more power than building a pinto from scratch and then adding
the turbo.....
Yep, its called a NA Duratec I4
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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jpindy3
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 04:17 PM |
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ok,
well im using the 202 block coz i have one,
and using the big valve head off of the vulcan,
i know its a little bit heavier bit it ant by much only a cupple of kgs,in a car that waighs 560kg it ant gona make any diffrance,
wouldnt you say,
also il be running alot more power than the vulcan so the little extra waight isnt going to matter
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jpindy3
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 04:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
202 is even heavier than 205
it's a low CR ford transit block so I guess it's ok for a turbo installation.
I can't help thinking that there's a better/lighter/cheaper way of achieving more power than building a pinto from scratch and then adding
the turbo.....
well i dont agree,if i was to get a new zetec and wanting 200bhp the engines are going for 700quid,then i would want some tb and and ecu and cams it
will be a good 1500quid,
the pinto turbo with the cossie pistons will give more than 200bhp so for the buck its a safe bet
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mookaloid
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 07:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
I can't help thinking that there's a better/lighter/cheaper way of achieving more power than building a pinto from scratch and then adding
the turbo.....
Yep, its called a NA Duratec I4
You got that right
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Andy D
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 07:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
I can't help thinking that there's a better/lighter/cheaper way of achieving more power than building a pinto from scratch and then adding
the turbo.....
Yep, its called a NA Duratec I4
You got that right
Time to give my Pinto v Dutatec vid an airing... He he
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flak monkey
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 07:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Andy D
Time to give my Pinto v Dutatec vid an airing... He he
Lol, doesnt seem like he was accelerating/trying and the pinto was   There's no way it would be that much faster.
At the end of the day, maths/physics wins out, especially in the corners. Duratec is close to 40kg lighter overall than a pinto, plus has more power
in standard form with throttle bodies than even a heavily breathed on pinto.... Once you are into 200+bhp pinto territory the money will get you a
home brew supercharged duratec install and you'll see over 300bhp.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Andy D
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 07:52 PM |
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Believe me, he was trying! The black car was a standard duratec on throttle bodies, my Pinto powered car has very similar power.
Dont think the weight comes into the equation over a certain speed, it's probably more about aerodynamics. (Brick like!)
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flak monkey
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 07:54 PM |
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It'll be interesting to see the difference after all my efforts to change the engine then. Had better not be slower! 
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Andy D
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 08:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
It'll be interesting to see the difference after all my efforts to change the engine then. Had better not be slower!
No, I'm sure it wont be......will it....
Cant quite put my finger on it, but a lot of 16v engined cars I find, just seem to rev for England. Sure the power figures are there, but
there's a lack of "shove"
Try this vid
Pinto V 16valvers
I dont think there are two cars with the same engine there. There's 2lt Zetec, Honda S2000, Duratec, Busa, and VX . Pinto doesn't disgrace
itself does it.
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BenB
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 08:17 PM |
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Nice videos but they don't really add much useful information when there are so many other variables which aren't compensated for (car
set-up, tyres, driver skill / knowledge of track etc etc etc etc)....
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flak monkey
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 08:17 PM |
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My pinto suprises an awful lot of people too, there are a lot of misconceptions about them, but they are incredibly good, solid, reliable engines even
when really pushed.
The problem with 16v engines is that they produce all their power and torque right at the top of the rev range, where as the pinto is very torquey
right from 3000rpm upwards.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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Andy D
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 08:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by BenB
Nice videos but they don't really add much useful information when there are so many other variables which aren't compensated for (car
set-up, tyres, driver skill / knowledge of track etc etc etc etc)....
True, for what it's worth we were all on the same tyres.. Driver capabilities variable. It was the straight line performance I was on about
really... none of the other cars exactly belt away down the straights.
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coozer
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 08:41 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
I can't help thinking that there's a better/lighter/cheaper way of achieving more power than building a pinto from scratch and then adding
the turbo.....
And the other way is a 99p zetec off ebay....
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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coozer
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 08:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
The problem with 16v engines is that they produce all their power and torque right at the top of the rev range, where as the pinto is very torquey
right from 3000rpm upwards.
Hmm my ST170 twink has (according the Ford brochure) 170bhp & 195Nm from 2500rpm.
Has tons of load down torque and really howls when the vvt kicks in... only problem I find is it runs out of gears... maybe a new diff is required
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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mcerd1
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 08:54 PM |
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you could get cossie rod's and pistons (if you can find std pistons that will give you the right CR)
or the accralite forged pistons have floating pins and fit strait on the cossie rods and you get a choice of compression heights too:
linky
but they won't deal direct, you have to go through burtons
linky 2
linky 3
but none of these are a cheap option !
(£500 - £600 for 4 pistons new  )
also remember that cossie rods are 0.060" (1.524mm) longer than pinto ones
and the cossie rods don't have oil spray jets like the pinto ones, so your best bet is to get a cossie 2wd oil pump and pickup pipe (which has
the spray jets)
I got a set of s/h cossie rods from ebay for £60 and luckly they were all ok
Then I got accralite pistons (93mm pinto ones with 41.65mm comp. height)
then paid £80 to have them shortened to be flush with the top of the block an re-balanced (I'm going for ~11:1 CR for a NA build)
<<< see my avitar
then ended up having to buy a new oil pump and pickup pipe because I couldn't find a s/h one (£200 from GGR)
if you can find all the bits cheap enough I'd go for it, but its too easy to end up spending alot of money......
[Edited on 22/6/09 by mcerd1]
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jpindy3
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| posted on 22/6/09 at 10:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
you could get cossie rod's and pistons (if you can find std pistons that will give you the right CR)
or the accralite forged pistons have floating pins and fit strait on the cossie rods and you get a choice of compression heights too:
linky
but they won't deal direct, you have to go through burtons
linky 2
linky 3
but none of these are a cheap option !
(£500 - £600 for 4 pistons new )
also remember that cossie rods are 0.060" (1.524mm) longer than pinto ones
and the cossie rods don't have oil spray jets like the pinto ones, so your best bet is to get a cossie 2wd oil pump and pickup pipe (which has
the spray jets)
I got a set of s/h cossie rods from ebay for £60 and luckly they were all ok
Then I got accralite pistons (93mm pinto ones with 41.65mm comp. height)
then paid £80 to have them shortened to be flush with the top of the block an re-balanced (I'm going for ~11:1 CR for a NA build)
<<< see my avitar
then ended up having to buy a new oil pump and pickup pipe because I couldn't find a s/h one (£200 from GGR)
if you can find all the bits cheap enough I'd go for it, but its too easy to end up spending alot of money......
[Edited on 22/6/09 by mcerd1]
yer thats what i have just got a new set of 2wd cossie pistons &rods the pistons are new got them alot cheaper than what berton sell tham at and
the rods are second hand from a cossie garage,
pistons i got for 250 a set,rods 120 a set
oh the piston come with rings
a guy i know off of turbosport from sweden recons with a good turbo you can get over 300bhp,with the turbo i have witch is a t3 up to 240 depending
on set up,
i know this is starting to sound like pub talk now,but i really do think the old pinto has good power to give when turboed,i have done quite a bit of
resurch into it and you will be quite suprised at what its capable of.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 23/6/09 at 11:39 AM |
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what are you planning to do about the lack of the oil spray jets ?
I went for the easy option and used the cossie 2wd setup, not cheap new, but if you can find a S/H pump to get the special cover plate bit then its
alot cheaper - as most recon / uprated pumps don't come with the plate that feeds the spray bar and thats the expencive bit !
you can see it on this new pump:
Linky
or on my engine:
the 4x4 cossies had a different setup (that I've never had a good look at one)
-Robert
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jpindy3
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| posted on 7/7/09 at 09:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
what are you planning to do about the lack of the oil spray jets ?
I went for the easy option and used the cossie 2wd setup, not cheap new, but if you can find a S/H pump to get the special cover plate bit then its
alot cheaper - as most recon / uprated pumps don't come with the plate that feeds the spray bar and thats the expencive bit !
you can see it on this new pump:
Linky
or on my engine:
the 4x4 cossies had a different setup (that I've never had a good look at one)
-Robert
hi i managed to get a pump off ebay for 50quid,its a 4x4 one with the spray bar,i moded the pick up today,but it might have a clearnce problem,il take
some pics
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mcerd1
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| posted on 8/7/09 at 08:16 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jpindy3
hi i managed to get a pump off ebay for 50quid,its a 4x4 one with the spray bar,i moded the pick up today,but it might have a clearnce problem,il take
some pics
I'd like to see that - I've never seen any decent pics of the 4x4 setup
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