NS Dev
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| posted on 7/7/09 at 10:05 PM |
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Bike engine advice!
I am looking into (as in very imminently! ) buying a bike engine for our next project at retropower.
I am after something circa 180hp ish, on carburettors really to keep things simple, with decent reliability, that is proven, and cheapish to buy.
What am I best to get.
I had assumed carbed R1, and have contacted Malc at yorkshire engines for a price, which he has come back with, for an 01 5JJ variant.
Now I am a know-nowt on bike engines, is something like this the best sort of thing to be using or have I missed a really good alternative?? (budget
is under £1100 delivered for the full engine kit including everything to run it)
[Edited on 7/7/09 by NS Dev]
[Edited on 7/7/09 by NS Dev]
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 7/7/09 at 10:08 PM |
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180bhp for a Carb'd engine is quite a tall order...
I don't know about the high powered engines so much because I've not worked on a lot of them, but that seems like a stretch to me.
ATB
Steve
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twybrow
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| posted on 7/7/09 at 10:15 PM |
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That kinda power, on carbs, for that budget? Yikes...!
Which way around will the engine be? Blackbird might be an option if you are not turning the engine through 90degrees (they suffer oil surge more than
most).
An early Busa would be a bit more money, but might fit the bill.
If you went for a fuel injected engine, the choices open up a lot more..... Zx10, ZX12, R1 etc.
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CraigJ
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| posted on 7/7/09 at 10:33 PM |
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How bout a cheap older 1000cc engine. ZX 10's are cheap and put out almost 140 bhp de-restricted. Then ad a td04-13c turbo from a volvo with low
boost will make 180 bhp. And could be done for 1100 if you are good
At doing the work ur self.
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cloudy
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| posted on 7/7/09 at 10:48 PM |
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I'm making 162 on carbs for about £300-400 
James
www.warnercars.com
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scootz
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| posted on 8/7/09 at 05:45 AM |
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Sure, some of the litre bikes make hugely impressive numbers in relation to their weght ? (Whats a ZX10... 55kg?).
Only one problem - they have low torque figures which will be exposed very quickly in a BEC... especially two-up!
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CraigJ
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| posted on 8/7/09 at 06:25 AM |
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Old ZX10's weigh 80kg. Wish it weighed 55, wunt have to tow my ass of lifting it in and out. Bout 80 lb/ft I thing so not a lot. Thats why im
useing 2 of them. Problem solved. :-D
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NS Dev
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| posted on 8/7/09 at 06:50 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
That kinda power, on carbs, for that budget? Yikes...!
Which way around will the engine be? Blackbird might be an option if you are not turning the engine through 90degrees (they suffer oil surge more than
most).
An early Busa would be a bit more money, but might fit the bill.
If you went for a fuel injected engine, the choices open up a lot more..... Zx10, ZX12, R1 etc.
I'm looking at an R1 at the moment, but a carbed one, not an injected one.
What else did they make with carbs around that time?
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Triggerhappy
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| posted on 8/7/09 at 07:37 AM |
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If you aim for 180Hp on an carbed R1 engine it´s possible. If you use 98-99 engine as base and :
Serious headwork incl filling, titanium valves on exhaust side, 4 angle mira machined seats, source correct racing cam´s, valve springs.
Hi comp pistons, coated shoulder.
Hi strength rod,s
Ceramic low drag bearings.
Raise rpm limit to 13´000rpm
Mikuni flatslide´s
Spend 1 month testing different exhaust and air intake options on the Dyno...
Can live with an life expectancy of aprox 4 hours between rebuilds and gladly pay for it....
Thats what my sidecar racing friend did with his 3 engines he rotated during a couple of seasons...got him a couple of national titles. He had between
170-180rwhp....and it had the most beautiful induction noice....hi compression + Flatslide = Heaven
Budget eeehhhh...well 1100 will buy you...the base engine and original carbs...so around 120-127RWHp...depending on auxillarys...
Material cost for 180Hp...hmm aprox 5´000gbp + work from really pro engine builder...so...another 1 or 2 thousand...
[Edited on 8/7/09 by Triggerhappy]
Im from Sweden, so im escused...The Muppet drummer for president!!
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minitici
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| posted on 8/7/09 at 07:59 AM |
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ZZR1100's are cheap and cheerful, you might be able to find an ex. Radical Clubsport Powertec tuned version (Powertec claim 175 bhp for theirs
with flatslides - but I think they may have an optomistic dyno )
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TimC
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| posted on 8/7/09 at 09:18 AM |
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If it has to be carbs, your best bet will be either a 5JJ R1 or an early Blackbird, but you may need a dry sump for that.
180bho is a big ask though.
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hobbsy
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| posted on 8/7/09 at 12:23 PM |
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As others have said the Blackbird will get you closest to the power you want on the budget you have while sticking to carbs.
But watch out for oil surge - I know from experience!
You might be able to find a 2nd hand Accusump for not too much money (I think the manual value is mostly better than the electrically operated unless
its very new? Flow rates far higher).
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sucksqueezebangblow
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| posted on 8/7/09 at 12:47 PM |
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A standard Busa will push out a genuine 180BHP at the crank (162 RWHP) but runs on injection (though it sounds more complex than carbs it isn't
really). They were going for £2500 last year but I've seen one go on eBay for £1500 and another advertised at £1750 didn't sell so I recon
with a bit of effort you'll get one for about £1500.
Better to Burnout than to Fade Away JET METAL ~ AndySparrow © 
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DIY Si
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| posted on 8/7/09 at 05:13 PM |
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As others have said, whilst I'm sure you're aware of the oiling issues, the blackbird sounds like your best bet. I got an Ebay special for
£433 with dynojetted carbs. Which should give roughly 160-165 hp, but equally I can't think of a any engines that kick out 180. Not on carbs at
least. And many of the later engines have the inlets much more vertical, which makes retro fitting carbs tricky.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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NS Dev
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| posted on 8/7/09 at 09:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Triggerhappy
If you aim for 180Hp on an carbed R1 engine it´s possible. If you use 98-99 engine as base and :
Serious headwork incl filling, titanium valves on exhaust side, 4 angle mira machined seats, source correct racing cam´s, valve springs.
Hi comp pistons, coated shoulder.
Hi strength rod,s
Ceramic low drag bearings.
Raise rpm limit to 13´000rpm
Mikuni flatslide´s
Spend 1 month testing different exhaust and air intake options on the Dyno...
Can live with an life expectancy of aprox 4 hours between rebuilds and gladly pay for it....
Thats what my sidecar racing friend did with his 3 engines he rotated during a couple of seasons...got him a couple of national titles. He had between
170-180rwhp....and it had the most beautiful induction noice....hi compression + Flatslide = Heaven
Budget eeehhhh...well 1100 will buy you...the base engine and original carbs...so around 120-127RWHp...depending on auxillarys...
Material cost for 180Hp...hmm aprox 5´000gbp + work from really pro engine builder...so...another 1 or 2 thousand...
[Edited on 8/7/09 by Triggerhappy]
ok, that puts things into perspective!
Maybe I should have bought the spare engine when we sold the radical two years ago, that was dyno'd at 220hp and went for £2500 (busa though,
and 1500cc)
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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