john_p_b
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 05:14 PM |
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are bike carbs more or less trouble than dcoe's?
as title really.
i'm torn between ditching my pinto for a zetec i have sat here or sticking a new cam in my pinto to get rid of the tapping noise and stick so
bike carbs on as i had nothing but problems with the twin dcoe's i fitted a couple of years back and rapidly took back off!
i'm just still a little scared by the webers, between them sticking open, catching fire, constantly needing rejetting and refusing to work with
filters on they did actually sound nice but i could never go back to them!
what kind of work is needed to get a set of say zx6r carbs up and running on a 2.1 pinto? how easy are they to set up? how much modification is
required? i pressume i'll need a electric pump?
no doubt loads more i'll think of in a bit but if anyone can get me started i'd appreciate it 
built a car, built a home, had a family. lost the family, lost the home, still got the car.
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coozer
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 05:19 PM |
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Bike carbs are a doddle compared to dcoe's. No need to fanny about with the screwdriver trying to keep them running/balanced. Bike carbs will
also have the pinto running a lot smoother and can be much more economical.
This was confirmed to me by the god like figure Dave at Bogg Brothers.
GO FOR IT!
The carbs should work striaght off the bike and get a bike pump as well. I had ZX9R carbs on mine that passed SVA as they came off the bike.
Best bet also is to get it running then take it over to BB for a final (once only) fettling.
[Edited on 24/1/10 by coozer]
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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john_p_b
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 05:22 PM |
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so are zx6r carbs up to the job? what needs to be done to get them running my engine other than obviously a manifold?
built a car, built a home, had a family. lost the family, lost the home, still got the car.
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coozer
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 05:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by john_p_b
so are zx6r carbs up to the job? what needs to be done to get them running my engine other than obviously a manifold?
I would say yes, all you need is to make a manifold, plumb up the bike pump (gravity fed by the tank at the rear) and it should run.
Maybe a bit of fiddling with the air screws and drilling out the main jet will be needed to run spot on, but do call Bogg Brothers and ask them. They
will tell you over the phone exactly what to do to the carbs. They are diamond geezers...
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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jacko
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 05:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
quote:
Originally posted by john_p_b
so are zx6r carbs up to the job? what needs to be done to get them running my engine other than obviously a manifold?
I would say yes, all you need is to make a manifold, plumb up the bike pump (gravity fed by the tank at the rear) and it should run.
Maybe a bit of fiddling with the air screws and drilling out the main jet will be needed to run spot on, but do call Bogg Brothers and ask them. They
will tell you over the phone exactly what to do to the carbs. They are diamond geezers...
Yes i fully agree except you can pull the fuel out the top of the tank [ I DO }
Jacko
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john_p_b
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 05:50 PM |
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the outlet on my tank is about half an inch from the bottom of the tank so shouldn't be a problem in that dept then.
built a car, built a home, had a family. lost the family, lost the home, still got the car.
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jacko
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 06:04 PM |
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No
go for it
Are you making your manifold ?
have a look in my photo archives if so under bike carbs and manifold
Jacko
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john_p_b
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 06:11 PM |
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not sure about making my manifold, will see how confident i'm feeling there's a set of zx6r carbs on ebay at the moment for £35
delivered which i'm getting very very tempted with! is there anything special i need to look for?
built a car, built a home, had a family. lost the family, lost the home, still got the car.
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 06:27 PM |
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Hang on a moment......webers (or dellortos) should be fine once set up. Same as bike carbs, which MUST need to be balanced to give an even idle.
Not saying bike carbs are a bad idea, but there is nothing wrong with webers either. And any carbs will need to be set up properly, I would hesitate
to just bung some on and assume the mixture accross the range is OK, could be a very expensive mistake (either fuel or damaged engine)
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jacko
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 06:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
Hang on a moment......webers (or dellortos) should be fine once set up. Same as bike carbs, which MUST need to be balanced to give an even idle.
Not saying bike carbs are a bad idea, but there is nothing wrong with webers either. And any carbs will need to be set up properly, I would hesitate
to just bung some on and assume the mixture accross the range is OK, could be a very expensive mistake (either fuel or damaged engine)
Thats why he needs to have it set up on a rolling road as said above.
The thing with bike carbs they only use the fuel they need as like SU carbs
were as webbers are a big pump and pump fuel like no tomorrow
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john_p_b
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 07:02 PM |
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rolling road would be it's 1st destination after fitting. comes in handy having a good friend with a decent dyno
built a car, built a home, had a family. lost the family, lost the home, still got the car.
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whitestu
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 07:10 PM |
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Zx6R carbs are great - I've got them on my 2.0 Zetec and it goes really well. I haven't had it on a rolling road, but it has no problems
keeping up with similarly engined cars on throttle bodies.
You don't actually need an inlet manifold with these carbs. They work perfectly mounted horizontally on the head, so all you need to do is
re-space them to suit you inlet ports.
Once this is done, get hold of a set of the rubbers that are used to mount them on the bike engine and mount these onto a an ali plate made to fit
your engine [mine is made out of 5mm ali].
Bolt the whole thing together, using a ZX6RR fuel pump and then set them up.
For me this involved openign the jets up to 1.6mm and lifting the needles one notch.
I used an AFR meter and wideband to get the mxture right.
Stu
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ashg
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 07:20 PM |
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sorry to wee on your bomb fire but zx6 carbs will dangerously under fuel a 2.1 pinto to destruction.
i put zx6 carbs on my 1.6 pinto it idled fine and reved ok but as soon as it went on the rr you could see that it went very lean above 3k rpm even on
the highest needle setting.
we managed to re-profile the needles to get the fuelling correct but there was virtually nothing left of the needles when we were finished. have a
look in this months ckc and you will see what i mean.
at a minimum you will have to drill out the jets for a 2.1 pinto
if you fit zx9 carbs you may get away with just re-profiling the needles. i can tell you now it will under fuel if you just bolt them straight on and
do nothing.
there is two ways to set them up properly.
1. take it to a good rolling road. they will re-profile the needles and possibly rejet if necessary. the benefit of re-profiling the needles is that
you can fine tune the midrange for cruse to get better fuel economy.
2. fit a wideband with display and drive adjust drive adjust until its correct. you wont be able to re-profile the needles using this method but you
will be able to drill out the jets and play with the needles. your fuel economy on cruse may not be as good as it can be but at least you wont under
fuel it and blow a hole in a piston.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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jacko
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 07:30 PM |
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Or ring Bogg Brothers the god of fitting bike carbs
When i had mine fitted boggs lifted the needles drilled the main jets and blocked some air holes to stop it going lean at high revs
I have zx9r carbs that have been on for about 3 years know
But you must check with people that know about these things like Bogg Brothers
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whitestu
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| posted on 24/1/10 at 10:23 PM |
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quote:
sorry to wee on your bomb fire but zx6 carbs will dangerously under fuel a 2.1 pinto to destruction.
Sure they will if you don't set them up, but that's no reason not to use them.
I read the article about Atspeed and they sound like good guys, but I wan't sure why they were unhappy to drill the jets out or fit larger
ones.
Mine have been on my 2.0 Zetec for about 18 months now with two trackdays thrown in and with no problems.
A wideband setup, or RR session doesn't cost much to get them right.
Mine certainly doesn't run lean with 1.6mm jets - if anything it's slightly rich at WOT.
The emissions are fine, and it gets about 38 - 40 mpg when cruising.
ZX6R carbs are 37.5 mm so should be well up to the job, though no reason why they should be better than webbers - just a lot cheaper.
Stu
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