MakeEverything
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| posted on 23/5/10 at 10:20 PM |
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Refrigerant Cooled Engine?
Anyone thought about this?
Ive often wondered about using an AC pump to cool an intercooler or charge cooler to get a "17 degree" charge at high ambients?
If this system were used, you could get consistent charge temperatures and subsequently tune to suit?
Just an idea on the table....
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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tegwin
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| posted on 23/5/10 at 10:25 PM |
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This is something that had been rattling around my mind for a while as well..
But when I got down to thinking about it... the drag on the engine from the compressor would have to be greater than the gain from the refrigerated
air I would have thought.... You cant get something for nothing... water misting would be a better solution
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 23/5/10 at 10:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
This is something that had been rattling around my mind for a while as well..
But when I got down to thinking about it... the drag on the engine from the compressor would have to be greater than the gain from the refrigerated
air I would have thought.... You cant get something for nothing... water misting would be a better solution
But you would get consistency and a predictable engine at all ambient temperatures, though your atmospheric pressure would change but im not looking
to race. Just would be nice to be able to set your EFI to a constant rather than a variable.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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tegwin
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| posted on 23/5/10 at 10:38 PM |
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Not so sure....
You would need a stonking great big compressor to meet the airflow demands of a forced induction engine to get a suitable cooling effect...
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Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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Rod Ends
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 posted on 23/5/10 at 10:42 PM |
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quote:
Ford has recently patented an intercooling approach that uses an engine-driven refrigerant system.
http://autospeed.com/A_110600/cms/article.html
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dhutch
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| posted on 23/5/10 at 10:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
But when I got down to thinking about it... the drag on the engine from the compressor would have to be greater than the gain from the refrigerated
air I would have thought....
I think thats it isnt it.
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Dusty
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| posted on 23/5/10 at 11:03 PM |
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Aaah! The article explains it. What you need is extra densification of the charge.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 24/5/10 at 06:36 AM |
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This simply wouldn't be viable on a continuous basis, the amount of power absorbed by the compressor and the size and weight of the system would
be huge. Trying to provide a constant charge temperature in this way would also mean the engine suffers extra power loss under hotter ambient
conditions, just as it would without the system.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 24/5/10 at 09:51 PM |
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but wouldnt it make the engine more predictable given the constant inlet temp?
If the inlet temperature was set to a setpoint, then the ambient wouldnt really matter as the refrigerated system would cool the charge temp
accordingly?
I know there are losses from the aC compressor, but i was thinking along the lines of predictability and ease o tuning etc.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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PSpirine
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| posted on 24/5/10 at 10:20 PM |
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I think the issue is as noted that to maintain that constant temp, you need a greater load on the compressor.
As such, you may be fixing one of the input parameters for mapping (intake temp), but your load starts to vary even when you don't want it
to.
Incidentally compressors can run over 100% thermal efficiency (due to the humidity and heat in the ambient air - free energy provided by the sun), so
techincally I suppose you could reap a benefit from this, but I highly doubt this would be tangible.
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Liam
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| posted on 25/5/10 at 09:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by dhutch
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
But when I got down to thinking about it... the drag on the engine from the compressor would have to be greater than the gain from the refrigerated
air I would have thought....
I think thats it isnt it.
Not really - by that logic a normal turbo or supercharger shouldn't work either as it gives you 'something for nothing' - i.e. an
engine-driven means of making the engine produce more power. All you're proposing is a system for cooling inlet air which allows you to inject
more fuel and create more power. As with turbo/superchargers, the extra fuel is the source of the apparent something for nothing.
Haven't read the article, but looks like Ford have already thuoght of it though
I doubt theirs bothers to achieve a constant inlet temp though - just cools it some amount I'd expect. The reduced complexity of the EFI system
achieved by making inlet temp constant would be far outweighed by the complexity of the additional system which achieves that. Overall complexity
increases! Variable inlet air temp is essentially solved too.
Keep inventing though 
[Edited on 25/5/10 by Liam]
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