vasser
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 10:11 AM |
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Hi All. Newbie builder.
Hi all.
First of all i won't be building a locost. I wan't to build a mercedes Sauber C9 replica. I have joined this site as it has bags of
information and i imagine any thing i build wont be a million miles away from what can be done on the locost.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauber_C9
Now there is no Kit avalible for this so i will have to fabricate this myself. Hopefully won't be a massive issue.
I wanted to use a Hyabusa engine for this car and possibly fit a turbo and Nitrous. Only thing that worries me about this is the BHP will be on the
high side but not sure how to make the car cope with this amount of power. I imagine theres not going to be much torque.
Any ideas on how about designing a good chassis would be greatly appreciated, as this will be a single seater with driver in the centre of the car.
I would also love for the car to be road legal so if any one knows any good books/manuals on the IVA that would be great.
Also do you need to have a back window on the car?
I've not started the build yet, still trying to convice the other half that i really need to build one, (bucket list). Trying to price up and
solve any potential issues prior to starting. Reakon if i can get some back ground knowledge it will make the build a bit easier
Any questions please feel free to ask or any hints/tips please throw them my way.
Thanks
Vasser
[Edited on 16/2/12 by vasser]
I don't want to break it, just see how far it will bend.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 10:15 AM |
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A large full bodied car like that is likely to end up quite a weight. I would imagine it will need to be a heavily modded Bike engine to haul it all.
Uness you plannig on scaling it down so its more the size of a Spire/Sabre, in which case it wouldnt be much of a replica, more 'inspired
by'.
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vasser
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 10:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
A large full bodied car like that is likely to end up quite a weight. I would imagine it will need to be a heavily modded Bike engine to haul it all.
Uness you plannig on scaling it down so its more the size of a Spire/Sabre, in which case it wouldnt be much of a replica, more 'inspired
by'.
Had worried about that and also looked at getting a V6 or V8 instead.
I don't want to break it, just see how far it will bend.
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snapper
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 10:32 AM |
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If you want it road legal you need to read, and read, and read the IVA manual.
Then ask on here, it's all been done before and most people pass, it's only those who build regardless then ask about IVA to late in the
build that get caught out.
You can find it on .GOV and VOSA web site and a lot of people on here have digital copies.
Biggest issue for you will be lights as there are specific heights and widths.
Engine emmissions
Seat belt mount positions.
The rest is reasonably easy.
No you don't need a back window, front will need proper kite marks and wipers that cover a prescribed area
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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welderman
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 10:36 AM |
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Hi and welcome to the forum, it looks alot like the ultima car  , i want one one day
Joe
Thank's, Joe 
I don't stalk people
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=172301
Back on with the Fisher Fury R1
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adithorp
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 10:41 AM |
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First... Welcome! Your project might not be the usual fair but you should find plenty of help and encouragement here.
Is the plan to make it full scale or smaller? I've always thought a 3/4 or even 2/3 scale LeMans car should be doable.
For IVA the re's no advice books tht I know of but have a good read through the manual. It's a bit hard work but worth reading.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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pewe
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 10:48 AM |
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Welcome to the mad-house - seriously you'll find the inmates knowledgeable and willing to offer advice no matter what the problem.
If you want a V6 look up Scootz on here.
He's currently selling an MG engine and Triumph T/Bs for a seriously competitive price.
However don't leave it too long or he'll find something to put it in!
BOL with your build and if it's your first one best advice I can give is to keep it simples.
Cheers, Pewe10 
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vasser
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 10:49 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
First... Welcome! Your project might not be the usual fair but you should find plenty of help and encouragement here.
Is the plan to make it full scale or smaller? I've always thought a 3/4 or even 2/3 scale LeMans car should be doable.
For IVA the re's no advice books tht I know of but have a good read through the manual. It's a bit hard work but worth reading.
Thanks
Was going to go for full scale but having looked at blue prints, well what i can get my hands on might have to be made a bit smaller. Not 100% sure
but it seems as long as an S Class Merc if not longer.
Will also need dome ground clearence. thinking some sort of varible suspension.
I don't want to break it, just see how far it will bend.
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vasser
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 11:03 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by vasser
quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
First... Welcome! Your project might not be the usual fair but you should find plenty of help and encouragement here.
Is the plan to make it full scale or smaller? I've always thought a 3/4 or even 2/3 scale LeMans car should be doable.
For IVA the re's no advice books tht I know of but have a good read through the manual. It's a bit hard work but worth reading.
The origonal dimensions are as follows
Length - 4700mm
Width - 1980mm
Height - 1050 at it's highest point.
Weight - 895Kg (think that was dry)
Any one tell me roughly the weight of the locosts? and what materials do you guys use for building them.
This means its shorter than a Jaguar XKR but wider.
I don't want to break it, just see how far it will bend.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 11:09 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by vasser
The origonal dimensions are as follows
Length - 4700mm
Width - 1980mm
Height - 1050 at it's highest point.
Weight - 895Kg (think that was dry)
Any one tell me roughly the weight of the locosts? and what materials do you guys use for building them.
This means its shorter than a Jaguar XKR but wider.
Id say the avg 7 style is between 500-600 kg. BECs can get in to the 4**kgs, big CECs can get into 7**kgs!
I would say you want to target 200bhp/tonne to be fun, and about the same ft/lb per tonne too. So if its heading for the 900kg, you are going to want
a good 200hp engine with a reasonbable amount of torque, which (being a CEC man) i dont think a BEC will provide. So unless you stick it on a drastic
diet you are gonna spending alot of money on a Bike engine to get to the power and torques/tonne that make a decent sports car.
[Edited on 16/2/12 by loggyboy]
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vasser
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 11:14 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by vasser
The origonal dimensions are as follows
Length - 4700mm
Width - 1980mm
Height - 1050 at it's highest point.
Weight - 895Kg (think that was dry)
Any one tell me roughly the weight of the locosts? and what materials do you guys use for building them.
This means its shorter than a Jaguar XKR but wider.
Id say the avg 7 style is between 500-600 kg. BECs can get in to the 4**kgs, big CECs can get into 7**kgs!
I would say you want to target 200bhp/tonne to be fun, and about the same ft/lb per tonne too. So if its heading for the 900kg, you are going to want
a good 200hp engine with a reasonbable amount of torque, which (being a CEC man) i dont think a BEC will provide. So unless you stick it on a drastic
diet you are gonna spending alot of money on a Bike engine to get to the power and torques/tonne that make a decent sports car.
[Edited on 16/2/12 by loggyboy]
O.K. Thanks. So going to hunt for a V6 or V8 ideas now. Had a Nissan 350z. It spat out about 290bhp that might do the trick if i can find a suitably
cheap donor, maybe find a write off. Whats peoples opinions on the Mazda RX8 engine. I know i can get my hands on one with about 40000 miles on the
clock.
I don't want to break it, just see how far it will bend.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 11:17 AM |
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The other thing to consider for the donor is orientaion, you are mentioning a few Front engine, rear drive, when the kit will be /midrear engine rear
drive. A simple solution would be a high power front engine/front drive donor (ford st/rs or vauxhall vxr.). This is how most 'midi' style
cars are done.
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vasser
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 11:23 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
The other thing to consider for the donor is orientaion, you are mentioning a few Front engine, rear drive, when the kit will be /midrear engine rear
drive. A simple solution would be a high power front engine/front drive donor (ford st/rs or vauxhall vxr.). This is how most 'midi' style
cars are done.
Awesome. This is great advice by the way.
I don't want to break it, just see how far it will bend.
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designer
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 11:45 AM |
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C9 was a really good looking car in the flesh.
Think I have a CAD drawing somewhere, will try to dig it out.
The problem with building this type of car is that you have to keep to the original size to get enough cockpit space for two, if you scale it down it
becomes a single seater because of the cockpit width.
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loggyboy
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 11:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by designer
C9 was a really good looking car in the flesh.
Think I have a CAD drawing somewhere, will try to dig it out.
The problem with building this type of car is that you have to keep to the original size to get enough cockpit space for two, if you scale it down it
becomes a single seater because of the cockpit width.
quote:
Originally posted by vasser
Any ideas on how about designing a good chassie would be greatly appreciated, as this will be a single seater with driver in the centre of the car.
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b14wrc
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 12:13 PM |
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Why not use two engines if you want to go the bike route?
You will have the space!
20vt powered rear engined locost
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vasser
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 12:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by designer
C9 was a really good looking car in the flesh.
Think I have a CAD drawing somewhere, will try to dig it out.
The problem with building this type of car is that you have to keep to the original size to get enough cockpit space for two, if you scale it down it
becomes a single seater because of the cockpit width.
If you have a drawing that would be awesome, thanks
I don't want to break it, just see how far it will bend.
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russbost
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 12:33 PM |
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Well at least you're putting the engine at the right end! Welcome to the forum.
I would say do yourself a favour & see if something like the Ultima chassis would do the job for you, much easier than starting from scratch even
if you had to stretch it a bit - part builds can usually be found.
Don't be put off the bike engined route, but look at the ZZR1400, with a Rotrax supercharger will make around 300bhp & 200ft/lbs &
don't forget bike engines have a torque multiplier b4 the gearbox usually around 1.5/1.6 so they don't lack torque by the time it gets to
the wheels.
If you're going to go car engine then why not do it properly with an LS2 or similar?
Don't go the twin bike engine route unless you have limitless time, patience, funds - been there done that, it isn't easy!
Good luck with it!
I no longer run Furore Products or Furore Cars Ltd, but would still highly recommend them for Acewell dashes, projector headlights, dominator
headlights, indicators, mirrors etc, best prices in the UK! Take a look at http://www.furoreproducts.co.uk/ or find more parts on Ebay, user names
furoreltd & furoreproducts, discounts available for LCB users.
Don't forget Stainless Steel Braided brake hoses, made to your exact requirements in any of around 16 colours.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/furoreproducts/m.html?_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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PSpirine
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 12:36 PM |
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I'd be tempted to use a VAG transaxle in the rear. A 4cyl Turbo, 5cyl or 6cyl out of the Passat/A4/A6 range is a relatively cheap and good
package. Plus you can apparently somehow make the Audi V8 fit it (with a bit more work and money).
The 1.8T engines are good for 300hp with standard internals, and a engine + transaxle combo can be had for <£500
Sounds like an awesome build.
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mark chandler
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 02:37 PM |
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Have a look here
http://www.gt40s.com/forum/
Also Fred W B has been building something fantastic on here, read up on his posts as it will show you how to get a scale model (corgi toy) and upscale
to make the body moulds.
Engines, audi transaxle these days so get a v8 audi A8 and chop up, if poor then a V6 passat 
Regards Mark
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blakep82
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 02:44 PM |
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oh yes! do it! i wouldn't go bike engine though, audi or bmw V8 would be perfect. probably audi as you can use the transaxle too
i can't wait to see how this turns out, i want to build something like that one day. jag xjr12 was always my favourite though, but the sauber is
a lovely car!
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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ReMan
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 03:13 PM |
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Even as a bike engine enthusiast, I would say no. That needs to look and sound V6 minimum pref V8/12
www.plusnine.co.uk
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Fred W B
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 05:48 PM |
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Mark, thanks for the credit
Vasser, by far the biggest consideration with the project you propose is the bodywork. Take it from me and the other (none 7) scratch builders.
Chassis and running gear is a walk in the park compared to doing a full body from scratch.
My body thread is here
CANAMSA body
Cheers
Fred W B
[Edited on 16/2/12 by Fred W B]
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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vasser
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 06:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Fred W B
Mark, thanks for the credit
Vasser, by far the biggest consideration with the project you propose is the bodywork. Take it from me and the other (none 7) scratch builders.
Chassis and running gear is a walk in the park compared to doing a full body from scratch.
My body thread is here
CANAMSA body
Cheers
Fred W B
[Edited on 16/2/12 by Fred W B]
Hi Fred
That is amazing. Looked at your build on the gt40 forum.
I don't fully understand how you replicated the dimensions from the model 1:18 car. Could you explain this in a bit more depth.
Thanks
Vasser
I don't want to break it, just see how far it will bend.
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Fred W B
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| posted on 16/2/12 at 06:17 PM |
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Hi Vasser
I see that the pic of the measuring jig is not displaying in the original thread. See below
What I did is measure the vertical distance from the datum base to the body surface at 5 mm intervals on the transvere and logitudinal axis, so as to
creat a plot of a "contour map" of the body surface.
A bit like those things you see that have a bunch of nails through a board that you can press into a shape.
These points were than plotted in a CAD programme, and then the dots joined together with splines and blends to give a surface that was then smoothed
till it looked right
Cheers
Fred W B
[Edited on 16/2/12 by Fred W B]
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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