redeye
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 posted on 31/7/12 at 02:03 PM |
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knackered Duratec?
following on from another thread that I kind of hijacked a bit ....sorry
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/9/viewthread.php?tid=156305
I have since been out to my garage and ran the engine for a bit
It seems I was wrong about the oil pressure at cold idle...its sitting at more like 6 bar and rising all the way to 10bar with when revved.....now
even I know this isnt good. It slowly comes down to around 3.5 - 4 bar once the engine is hot.
As for the smoke, I do get a lot of sooty black smoke when revving the engine, which im putting down to the base map and the need for a R/R.....but
when its sitting idling the smoke is more like a white colour, this would lead me to believe there is coolant in it.
I disconnected the oil breather from the cam cover and there are droplets of water in it, there also seems to be a small build up of white sludge, not
a lot but looks like it hasnt been there long.
So it looks like im facing two possible problems, High oil pressure and possible head gasket/head problem.
For the high oil pressure I am going to try investigating the oil pressure sensor and see if the thread sealant I used to fit it may have blocked up
the end?
another possibility is the oil pressure relief valve...does anyone know where this is located on the Duratec? Could this be the cause?
I dont even know where to begin with the water in the cylinder head. the head was lightly skimmed and cleaned by a local specialist and I put it back
together myself with a new head gasket, could I have cocked up when fitting it?
Im feeling a bit sick about the whole thing really since I really thought I was on the finish straight with the car, but it seems like it will never
get done for the summer now
There are a few engines on Ebay, im tempted to just go and buy one of them, stick it in as is and maybe fix this one later on.
I need some cheering up
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snakebelly
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 02:19 PM |
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if the pressure eventually lowers to normal are you sure your using an oil with suitable viscosity ratings?
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redeye
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 02:40 PM |
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The normal pressure for a duratec when hot from what Ive read and been told by others is more like 1-1.5 bar
Im using 5w30 as recommended by ford too.
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 03:00 PM |
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Mine runs about 1.5 bar - 20PSI when idling and water at 85 degrees.
Around 50PSI - 3.5 BAR at high revs.
Think this accords with what FastDan was saying on the other post.
[Edited on 31/7/12 by big-vee-twin]
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 03:00 PM |
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On my duratec the oil pressure was at the top of the gauge until it got hot. I used the slightly thicker oil recommended by Raceline. It then dropped
when warm and increased with revs. From what you have said I don't think there is a real problem there as it all sounds normal.
On the smoking side, are you using carbs or injection? I was on carbs and if I touched two of the headers (3 and 4) they were cool, whereas the other
two were hot. There was so much fuel going in that the plugs couldn't spark all the time and therefore left unburned fuel in the engine. When I
revved it there was clouds of white smoke! By balancing the carbs it improved, so that all four got warm, but the Rolling Road was needed to actually
lean it out properly.
Are your carbs/throttle bodies balanced?
Again, I don't think that you necessarily have a problem, mine blew loads of white smoke and the engine was fine as mentioned.
Mark
Tiger Avon
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dave r
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 03:31 PM |
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wouldnt worry about it yet
mine was smoking on the base map (still does but not as bad on the rr map
and also was developing emulsion on the cap, and breather tubes first run... mine had sat for at least 9 months , and the damp had to go
somewhere.......
i am still burning oil, but it may be settling down a bit
dave
I'd love to give my imaginary friend a great big hug,
but this jacket makes it impossible.
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redeye
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 03:42 PM |
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Thanks for the quick and helpful replies guys
Tiger - The Oil pressure still seems very high to me though going on what others experience is, Im going to take a look at the sensor tonight and make
sure it isnt blocked by anything....such as sealant or thread seal.
Im running gsxr tbs and omex 600, I havent fully balanced the tbs yet, Ill try and do this properly tonight.
dave - Im probably just jumping to conclusions with the water in the head. like you, my engine has been sat around for 2 or more years so theres bound
to be damp built up.
Ill inspect it further tonight and see if I can figure out what is happening to the oil pressure.
Thanks again for the support
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silky16v
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 04:00 PM |
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Have you got a wide band fitted?
i would suggest on balancing the TB and then making alteration to the startup and enrichments maps to get the correct AFR at idle
This can also be done by utilising the narrowband input on the omex 600
I have the similar setup on MNR and i've balanced the TB and set the narrowband input and its made a huge difference
the other thing is i had a problem with fuel pressure at idle pulsing and i found that the fuel filter was totally blocked with dirt and the bottom of
my tank had water in it!
i now have perfect 3.5bar fuel pressure throughput the whole RPM range (don't plumb in the vacuum on the Fuel Regulator)
if you think you car is using water via head gasket get a sniff test performed, unless its mixing with the oil, put its not uncommon to see white gunk
in the breather as this is just water vapour in the oil system
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dave r
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 04:15 PM |
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what gauge are you using???? plumb a temp old fashioned mechanical one in there, thats known to be good
if you havent got one, i think i have one you can borrow
where are you feeding the gauge from ?
I'd love to give my imaginary friend a great big hug,
but this jacket makes it impossible.
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dave r
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 04:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiger Super Six
I used the slightly thicker oil recommended by Raceline. I
so what oil is that then ????? may make mine smoke a bit less 
I'd love to give my imaginary friend a great big hug,
but this jacket makes it impossible.
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redeye
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 04:33 PM |
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Dave - Its a smiths telemetrix gauge.
The sensor I bought from someone on here:
http://www.kitspares.co.uk/shop/item.php?cat=11&product=5043&catsub=0
I did wonder if it possible the two dont work together but this is a bit of a long shot.
The gauge is being fed from the sensor in the link and is fitted to an adapter which also houses the oil light switch.
Im also using the raceline adapter plate that allows the oil filter to be place horizontally and I'm using an oil filter from Burton power,
which I'm led to believe is a cosworth one.
I did wonder if getting hold of a mechanical one would be the best answer to rule out a faulty gauge or sensor.
If you do have one, could I borrow it?
[Edited on 31/7/12 by redeye]
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 04:48 PM |
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I have similar set up are you sure you have the correct sensor they have to be matched.
Speedy cables lists the one for the telemtrix guage as TOP1-1552 and has a resitance range of 10-180 ohms.
Best check that first
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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dave r
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 07:56 PM |
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sorry missed your call tonight....
gimme a ring tommorow, and you can come borrow...
you know what thread your fittings are ?
will see what i can sort out
just a thought, if you want to pull the gauge and sender from yours first, we can ring it up and test its accuracy
dave
[Edited on 31/7/12 by dave r]
I'd love to give my imaginary friend a great big hug,
but this jacket makes it impossible.
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redeye
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| posted on 31/7/12 at 08:44 PM |
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Bit of an update
I think I have solved the problem with the white smoke from the exhaust, my EGR blanking plate didnt seem to have a good seal and was leaking water,
there is a god chance it was also allowing water to get into the exhaust port too and therefore water was being steamed out of the exhaust....Ive used
some sealent around the blaking plate and now there is barely any smoke at all unlkess I rev it.....in which case its black from over fueling.....the
RR should sort that out hopefully.
And like Dave R says the droplets of water are likely to be damp built up in the engine, also checked the water for signs of oil and the water is
clean....no oil in there.
On to problem number 2 - Oil pressure, with the white smoke problem sussed I dedcided to let the engine have a nice long run at idle, since it sits at
6 bar I thought it shouldnt do much harm,
After running for about an hour and up to about 80-90 degrees the pressure dropped to about 2.5 bar
I then gave the engine a few revs and the pressure rose to about 6 - 8 bar then settled back down to 2 Bar
Now this is where it gets interesting - I then noticed the oil light started to flicker.....hmm....my oil light switch is rated at 20psi (about 1.3
bar) I tried to get a 25psi pressure switch to stop the light from ever coming on after reading about the low pressure idle on the duratec but ended
up settling for a 20psi switch.
So even the the switch is telling me that the pressure is about 20psi or 1.3 bar (perfect) the gauge is still reading as about 2 bar
This leads me to believe that the pressure sensor is not correct for the gauge and that its been reading approximately double this whole time 
Big-vee-twin - looks like you may be right, this is something I thought of aswell since the sensor was not bought with the gauge....my orgininal
sender was sold with the pinto (wish Id have kept it now, the sensor I mean)
Dave - Thanks very much, it would be very handy to try fitting the mechanical gauge to put my mind at rest, I think the sensor thread is 1/8 NPT, I
could take bring it with me like you say, what time tomorrow would suit you?
Ill also try ringing smiths tomorrow and see if its likely to be the case that the sensor is just the wrong one for my gauge.
Thanks everyone for the help
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FASTdan
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| posted on 1/8/12 at 08:08 AM |
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Excellent news - sounds like your getting there, but like me you always think the worst!
Im always very suspicious of electric pressure gauges and especially mixing and matching senders. Old fashioned capillary gauges for me all the way.
NEW danST WEBSITE NOW LIVE! Bike carbs, throttle bodies and more......
http://www.danstengineering.co.uk/
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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redeye
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| posted on 2/8/12 at 04:22 PM |
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Quick update
Found the correct sensor for my gauge online, bought from the same place I bought my gauge from in the first place.
Fitted tonight and oil pressure is fine
What a relief 
I can get on with getting it back on the road now
Thanks everyone
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 2/8/12 at 06:15 PM |
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Great news, keep up he good work
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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