donut
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 09:48 PM |
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4age list of parts needed
Thinking of the 4age 16v for replacement next winter. Looked at Zetec (and RV8) and have all the info and a rough idea of cost but want to compare it
to the 4age in terms of cost and ease of fitment.
Anyone got a list of whats needed and a rough idea of cost plus what i would need to do to up the bhp to about 150 (want to keep type 9 box. Also any
tips would help.
Many thanks
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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amalyos
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 10:12 PM |
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Check out the Raw site, they have a lot of info and costs for the 4age.
www.raw.uk.com
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donut
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 10:49 PM |
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I have but it's not 'real world' Theres always other things to buy that companies don't tell you about.
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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zilspeed
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| posted on 2/1/06 at 11:35 PM |
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My friend made his own inlet manifold and used a Sierra distributor for ignition - turned up a bush to enable it to fit the toyota cylinder head.
His engine has Wiseco pistons and a home porting job (huge inlet tracts). This engine was on the dyno at Agra when it was first built and was reckoned
to be around the 150bhp mark.
All in all, a very cheap installation indeed.
[Edited on 2/1/06 by zilspeed]
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donut
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| posted on 3/1/06 at 12:40 AM |
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Also is the clutch hydraulic?
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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andylancaster3000
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| posted on 3/1/06 at 01:17 AM |
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zilspeed: could you give more details on the the seirra distributor into the 4age engine How did he exactly did he adapt it to fit? Did he run on
carbs or injection? Just that I have an mr2 calling out for a pair of 45s!
Cheers,
Andy.
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DEAN C.
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| posted on 3/1/06 at 01:32 AM |
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Why use a sierra distributor,did I miss something.(why not use what is there?)
I'm pretty sure (correct me if i'm wrong)you can use the toyota ecu and dizzy but ignore the injection output to use webbers or bike
carbs.
Also there are (or were) some very cheap ignition boxes that supplied electronic ignition to use with carbs,personally i'd try the standard ecu
with carbs first.
Dont forget the ecu is only based on a basic early Bosch design and is fairly straightforward efi stuff.
This is a very lively and small light engine,it surprises a lot of people that have not been bitten by the 4age scream.
[Edited on 3/1/06 by DEAN C.]
Once I've finished a project why do I start another?
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 3/1/06 at 10:02 AM |
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You could call RAW and speak to Mel (the owner). They do complete conversions for the 4AGE and they use the type 9 GBX. The standard conversion would
have a cable operated clutch.
However as you're asking this on the Locost site I doubt you would be willing the pay the premium of a kit.
Keep in mind Fensport if you want a low miliage 4AGE 16V/20V Jap import engine.
If you would be happy with 150BHP then consider the 4AGE 20V as it comes with individual throttle bodies from the factory.
The silvertop 20V is approx 142 BHP @ 7500 RPM. The later blacktop is approx 150 BHP @ 7800 RPM (ligher internals).
Personally I wouldn't consider modding the 20V as the gains aren't worth the cost. However the 16V 4AGE does have the potential for future
upgrades.
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zilspeed
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| posted on 3/1/06 at 11:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andylancaster3000
zilspeed: could you give more details on the the seirra distributor into the 4age engine How did he exactly did he adapt it to fit? Did he run on
carbs or injection? Just that I have an mr2 calling out for a pair of 45s!
Cheers,
Andy.
Hi
As I understand it, the reason for using the Ford Dizzy is that they are easily available as a complete package - dizzy, sub loom, amplifier.
He took the gear drive off the toyota dizzy and mounted it to the spindle of the ford one then made up a sleeve to adapt the ford dizzy into the
toyota head.
Regarding induction - this car is on 45s on a home made inlet manifold. He cut out the three flanges (head plus 2 carbs), then he cut the tubing,
squashed it in the vice to suit the toyota ports. At this point, he tacked it together on the mig before taking it to be tig welded together.
It's maybe best to realise that the gentleman who did all of this has a serious pathological aversion to spending money and a general knack of
just doing things when required.
Now, no doubt you will be thinking (like me) that the advance curve on this dizzy will be totally unsuitable for the toyota engine. I wouldn't
disagree with you here. Let me find some track record though.
Westfield 1200 Bandit 80.27
Toyota engined car 80.64
Subaru Imprezza 86.43
Mallock 80.65
So it's not slow...
If you like, I can get exact details and maybe some pics for you. Not of ther car thopugh - because that is seriously desperately ugly.
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eddymcclements
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| posted on 3/1/06 at 05:36 PM |
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If you're dead set on keeping the Type 9 you'll need:-
1. a bellhousing to mate it to the 4AGE - they're around 175 quid - and a spigot bearing for the end of your crankshaft
2. a suitable clutch plate which is the right diameter for the 4AGE flywheel (200mm to 1989, 212mm after 1989) and fits the Type 9 input shaft
3. Some means of releasing the clutch - I fitted a Saab concentric clutch slave cylinder into my T-50 gearbox because the standard external slave was
bulky and would have fouled the bulkhead/tunnel area
4. New engine mountings
5. fuelling and ignition. It is possible to fit the stock 4AGE ignition and injectors if you lower/chop the inlet manifold, buy an aftermarket lowered
manifold, fit a bonnet bulge or cut-out or make a custom plenum. The MAP-sensored ECU will cope with a change in air filter and exhaust without
modification.
Of course you'll be stuck with only 122/129bhp or so depending on the year of your engine. If you need more then you'll need to think
about a pair of hotter camshafts (Kent do a T1602 which doesn't require shim-under-bucket followers) and skim the head to bump the compression
(earlier engines are only 9.4:1) to 10.5:1 or so. Then you'll need a programmable ECU (Megasquirt, Emerald, MBE, DTA, Omex etc), inlet manifold
and throttle bodies.
At this point things will be getting expensive, because after all it's only a little 1600cc engine. It would probably be cheaper to get a 160bhp
motor mated to your Type 9 by using a 2 litre Zetec or an XE - ain't no substitute for cubes, parts are cheaper and more plentiful secondhand,
both motors have been fitted to Caterhams and Westfields, RWD Escorts and the like so you might be lucky in finding the parts needed s/h.
My own solution was:-
Stock 4AGE from a 1986 FWD Corolla GTi - 100 quid
T50 from a RWD Corolla GT - 150 quid
Saab clutch slave and release bearing - 46 quid
home made plenum - 30 quid for parts required
home made loom using cut-up Toyota loom and a load of wire salvaged from a brand new Mondeo loom picked up at a car show - free!
manifold and exhaust from RAW - 280 quid
The engine is unmodified and screams like a good 'un. I have a spare, dismantled engine under the bench and plan to re-build the head, skim it,
add GSXR TBs and a Megasquirt, plus cams as and when the budget allows.
Cheers,
Eddy
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donut
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| posted on 5/1/06 at 11:49 AM |
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Cheers for the info Ed. Lots to think about!
Incidently does the sump need to be modified?
[Edited on 5/1/06 by donut]
Andy
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andywest1/
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Canada EH!
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| posted on 5/1/06 at 10:27 PM |
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4 AGE, Saab throw out bearing
Please tell me more, I am at the slave cylinder won't fit past the frame stage, looked at Tilton throwout bearing $300 plus US. What year and
model Saab as they have been sold in Canada for some years. I take it the bearing and release mechanism are internal.
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eddymcclements
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| posted on 6/1/06 at 02:06 PM |
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Have a look at this page
http://www.thesaabsite.com/900old/c900clutchparts.htm
near the bottom. Click on the thumbnail to view a larger pic. It's a Saab 900 clutch slave cylinder and fits round the gearbox input shaft
(actually it's slightly different on the donor Saab because the transmission is under the engine, but that doesn't matter). The Ford
Mondeo also uses a slave cylinder around the input shaft.
The way to use it is to make an adaptor ring or plate which mates the Saab (or Ford) slave to the inside of your bellhousing.
Here's my adaptor and
here's the adaptor and clutch slave bolted together.
This is a pic of the unit bolted in place.
The important things to get right:-
get the slave cylinder concentric with the input shaft
get the thickness of your adapter place right so that amount of motion of the piston in the clutch slave matches the position and travel needed by
your clutch cover plate and friction plate. Check this with a new friction plate and a worn-out plate so that you know the max and min points
required.
It'll be a lot cheaper than a Tilton!
Cheers,
Eddy
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Canada EH!
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 posted on 6/1/06 at 06:13 PM |
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4 age list of parts needed
The pictures explain it all Thanks again
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