AlexS
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| posted on 5/4/06 at 11:03 PM |
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Non starter
Someone please settle this for me.
New engine in car (thankyou iceman its very nice)
All connected but it wont start. Turns over, has oil water petrol. Have checked battery registers fine, even gave a boost and attempted a jump start.
Can turn over by hand. On ignition turns over very slowly. Everything else seems ok.
Had starter motor tested ooo 2 months ago maybe and they said it was fine. I reckon its not or at least its needs a recondition as may be working but
not giving out enough power! My dad (not as enthusiatic about the kit filling his garage) reckons sumet else is wrong and i should pay for an auto
electrician to come out (yeah right)
So please anyone who has ideas about why it could not be working let me know?
p.s. starter motor going in for test/recon/replacement tomorrow (different place from first time)
EDIT :- CHecked the starer connection too its fine and well earthed
[Edited on 5/4/06 by AlexS]
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k33ts
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| posted on 5/4/06 at 11:28 PM |
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if it turns over its not your starter motor
check for a spark first then go from there.
or try bumping it.
[Edited on 5/4/06 by k33ts]
tukcustoms.com
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 12:22 AM |
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Bad Earth on the engine\starter?
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Fatgadget
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 04:17 AM |
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Any gas engine should start or attempt to start if the following conditios are present and correct.
1,Spark
2,Fuel
3,Compression
This of course assumes mundane stuff like spark plugs and fuel are servicable (fuel is not stale) and the timing is set somewhere before TDC.
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tks
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 05:22 AM |
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to only add......
that the fuel mixture must also be in his limits....
sow not to rich and not to lean.
Always make sure you have a spark its the first thing what a mec. checks if a engine don´t starts.
He also does this to be sure he doesn´t flood the engine, because once in this scenario its difficult to check if a change helps..
I would say..check spark.
and clean sparkplugs / or replace since they are cheap.
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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AlexS
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 07:00 AM |
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Cleaned the sparks before they went and gapped them properly. Altho the engine is turning over is very slowly, a bit like the batteries dead (except
its fully charged) Ive checked the earths and theyre fine 
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tim windmill
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 07:21 AM |
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it could be the timing as if that is out it can have the effect of turning the engine over very slowly as if the battery is flat or a dodgy starter
motor
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britishtrident
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 07:54 AM |
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timing 180 degrees out.
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SeaBass
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 08:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tim windmill
it could be the timing as if that is out it can have the effect of turning the engine over very slowly as if the battery is flat or a dodgy starter
motor
Do you mean ignition timing??? Or valve train timing??
I would say 180 error as well BT...
Cheers
JC
[Edited on 6/4/06 by SeaBass]
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RazMan
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 08:03 AM |
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If it is turning over slowly, try connecting jumper leads (from a good battery) directly to the starter terminals to eliminate any dodgy earth
connections. If it still spins slowly then my money is on the starter
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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Mike R-F
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 09:08 AM |
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If using conventional ignition, also check low voltage from coil to dizzy.
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Schrodinger
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 09:58 AM |
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When you say you have checked the earth to the engine have you checked it with a multi meter or checked to make sure there is an earth wire? If the
former you could be earthing through the throttle cable or something like that.
I would run an earth wire directly from the battery to the engine to make sure of the good earth for starting.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 10:15 AM |
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Agreed - get a jump lead (or some other heavy cable) and connect the battery negative to the starter casing (e.g. a mounting bolt) and then try to
start the engine.
DJ
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DarrenW
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 10:28 AM |
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ive had a problem with slow starting before, turned out to be timing was a mile out. I re-timed it all up to TDC and it fired up, then tweaked it from
there.
My initial problem with starting was plug leads on wrong way round, but that gave me back fires etc.
Firstly go back to first principles and check everything is right.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 10:48 AM |
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Is it worth taking the plugs out, disconnecting the coil and giving it a spin?
If it still churns over then there's something wrong in the starter area. If it spins over rapidly then timing is a possibility.
DJ
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AlexS
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 11:49 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
ive had a problem with slow starting before, turned out to be timing was a mile out. I re-timed it all up to TDC and it fired up, then tweaked it from
there.
My initial problem with starting was plug leads on wrong way round, but that gave me back fires etc.
Firstly go back to first principles and check everything is right.
Leads are ok i marked them before took them off. Timing set as per earlier on this forum, think it was TDC and dizzy at 11 o clock roughly
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AlexS
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 11:51 AM |
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Will try the ideas for the earth ( i did use a multimeter to check) adn the coil and let you know how it goes, cheers
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DarrenW
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 12:00 PM |
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Ive had a slow turning over problem on another car before, cured by fitting new bigger earth leads between battery and chassis and engine to chassis
(got them made up by fork truck bay at factory i used to work at). This made a big difference.
Ive seen that Halfrauds sell new leads off the shelf.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 12:00 PM |
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Just be aware that a multimeter won't show an earth that's bad enough to slow a starter (if you see what I mean).
You can apply Ohm's Law:
Volts = Amperes x Ohms
If the starter's taking 100 Amps (very low estimate!) and the resistance of your earth connection is 0.1 Ohm, you've just lost 10 volts!
Not many ordinary multimeters are good for the low resistances involved.
Sorry if you know all this already...
David
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AlexS
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 06:40 PM |
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No i didnt DJ
Have just discovered the timing was 180 out (set to front piston not back!) so setting that right
Recond starter fitted sounded slightly healthier bt not enough. Going back to fit the rocker box and retry, failing that will try the jump lead idea
to make sure earth and power ok. Then if still no luck it between the coil or the solanoid...
Al
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AlexS
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 07:30 PM |
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okies timing didnt help, ran an earth from the engine and that sped things up a bit but not enough to say it was about to start. New problem is fuel
pipe has decided to squirt petrol across the garage when under pressure!!!!!!!! 
So tomorrow out to get new coil and solanoid (sod it replaced everything else on the engine) and new/bigger/more earthing wires and a new fuel line to
the carbs!cant go wrong then ive tried everything!
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 07:58 PM |
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What engine do you have? If it's a newly reconditioned unit it may be a bit on the tight side and if tuned compression may be a bit high? A tip
I read about in CCC years ago was to use a starter from an automatic version of your engine which often have more power, may not help now . If after
checking all the basics you still have no luck try towing the car to get it running. Once run it may well loosen up. Best of luck
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AlexS
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 08:03 PM |
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Yes 500miles or so since recon, but can turn over by hand so cant be that stiff. Its a 1660 xflow
tbh im pretty much outta ideas...banned from working on it till tuesday cos the missus has plans will nip to garage tomorrow and get all the bits i
can then im set to go then. If it doesnt work after ive done that then im really screwed
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 08:16 PM |
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Where abouts are you? There may be someone in your area that can help. May also help to know what work you have done on the engine .Things like has
distributor been out? carb/manifold off ? Wiring work? have you got the correct starter fitted? Xflow engine could be fitted with an inertia or pre
engaged starters which have different ring gears with different number of teeth that could cause slow turning over? There is a chamfer on the edge of
the ring gear teeth, which side of the ring gear is it? inertia type will be on the back (clutch side ) pre engaged will be on the front nearest to
starter
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AlexS
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| posted on 6/4/06 at 08:26 PM |
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Ive done nothing personally to the engine. bought from locost forum
1660cc
rebored to +0.040"
high comp ae pistons
crank shaft re ground
new kent bcf2 fast road
burman high pressure oil pump
new water pump
Distributor is from my old xflow and is timed ok and in good condition
manifold came from old xflow too as did the 32/36 carbs, didnt mess with them, just unscrewed the manifold from old one and attached to the new.
No wiring work changed, just all had a check through but new earths to go in soon.
Not a clue about the starter will check if other solutions dont work but took old one into shop and swapped for identical reconditioned starter (which
used to work fine in the old xflow)
Edit - Im in south manchester, sale area but we'll worry bout that if i get reeeally stuck
[Edited on 6/4/06 by AlexS]
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