02GF74
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 08:36 AM |
|
|
interesting cooling data
I was curious to see at what temperature my radiator fan switches on and off so ran the engine last night. Temperature as follows:
Temp/C----Time/min
82--------0.0 fan on
77.5------0.5
72.5------1.0
72--------1.25 fan off
I also measured temperature of the exhaust; it is 250 C at the cylinder head  but once it is out of the bodywork into the the stainless steel pipe
temperature is down to 120 
Well, I found it interesting
(somebody tell me how to format text in columns)
[Edited on 7/4/06 by 02GF74]
|
|
|
|
|
flak monkey
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 09:01 AM |
|
|
Sounds about right to me
Take the car for a thrash, then measure the temperature of the exhaust at the cylinder head...more likely to be around 550-600deg and glowing deep red
(looks good at night!) 
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 09:07 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
Take the car for a thrash, ......
I can't until I have jumped trhough the SVA hoops
|
|
|
DarrenW
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 09:59 AM |
|
|
i have learnt that unless 2 engines are identical you cant really use other peoples temp's as a rule as there are too many factors (type and age
of sensors, engine tune, exhaust used, bodywork configuration, type of coolant and % mix, location of sensors, size of rad and fan, type of gauges,
environmental factors etc etc).
My fan kicks in at approx 97deg and switches back off at 94. On the track i got the water temp up to 106 with no signs of trouble. Oil temp went up to
110 ish. All using ETB senders and DD2. I now use my normal readings as the base line and as a comparitor when driven hard.
I have also learnt that as good as they are, the DD2's give so much feedback that they can scare the novice until the alarms etc are programmed
in correctly. With some exerience they really come into their own.
02GF74 - your initial readings look fine for initial set up. It will be interesting to see how these change under driving conditions on road and
track.
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 10:51 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
02GF74 - your initial readings look fine for initial set up. It will be interesting to see how these change under driving conditions on road and
track.
I used IR thermometer to take the readings, bonnet off, engine idling. The fan is adjustable so that shouldn't change, unless I turn the
knob.
Ofcourse when driving the under bonnet temp will be higher as well as the exhaust.
Oh, and oil cooler was 51 C.
|
|
|
Fred W B
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 11:11 AM |
|
|
I've posted this before, but it might be of interest in context of this thread. It's from the crane cams website
Cheers
Fred W B
Proper Coolant Temperature and Camshaft Life!
Have you ever tried to find what proper coolant temperature is for most automotive engines? There are a lot of people who think they know, but it is
difficult to find specifics, even in textbooks. We know we want the intake air to be as cold as possible (for best power) because cold air is denser
(there are more oxygen atoms per cubic foot). The coolant temperature, however, is a different matter. The internal combustion engine changes chemical
energy stored in gasoline into heat energy that is focused on the piston tops. If the cylinder heads and engine block are too cold, they will absorb
much of the combustion heat before it can be used to push the piston down the cylinder. If the engine gets too hot, engine lubricants can break down,
as well as overheating of the intake charge can lead to detonation, etc.
It turns out that coolant (usually a 50/50 mixture of coolant and water) has some fantastic properties that are ideal for use in engines. With a
properly pressurized cooling system, coolant will not freeze until -30°F, and it won’t boil until +270°F (132C) (new oils don’t start to break down
until well over 270°F). With these characteristics, engine designers have decided that engines should operate at approximately 210-215°F. (99-102C)
Why, you ask? Well, it has to do with operating the engine at a high enough temperature to boil water out of the oil after the engine is cold started.
If you have dew on the grass, it is certain that you have water in your oil, as the crankcase is open to atmospheric pressure! You can either remove
the water by draining it out the bottom of the oil pan (remember the oil floats on water) or run the engine long enough and hot enough to boil the
water out of the lubrication system. Years ago, coolants weren’t as sophisticated and engines were run at 165-180F, (73-82C) but the oil was changed
every 1000 miles or so. That’s why many old timers think engines should run at 165-180F. (73-82C) Have you ever noticed that Ford doesn’t put
temperature marks on their gauges? They just mark C for cold and H for hot and write “normal” through the center. If you hook up a scan tool to a GM,
you will often find that the gauge reads much lower than the coolant temp sensor. That is because they know most drivers don’t understand how hot an
engine should run.
So what does this have to do with camshafts? Many enthusiasts erroneously think that the colder their engine runs the better! If they are not running
the engine hot enough to boil the water out of the oil, the oil becomes contaminated and the lifter/cam lobe interface is the highest load point in
the engine. Engines running too cool can contribute significantly to camshaft and lifter failure. Think about it: What good does it do to use the most
expensive synthetic oil and then run the engine so cold that it is contaminated by water vapor??!! Another point, piston manufacturers’ piston-to-wall
clearance recommendations assume you will be running the fully warmed engine at 200°+F. (93C) Run the engine too cold, and you could see some scuffed
pistons because the cylinders had not expanded enough to provide clearance.
If your engine will only run its best at the drag strip with the engine at 165°F, (73C) you probably have too cold of a spark plug heat range and you
are probably jetted way too rich! If you keep the engine hot (not the intake charge), you will be using more of the heat energy in the gasoline to
make power instead of just heating up your block. It does take “tuning know-how” to run an engine at 200-210°F (99-102C) , but you might be surprised
how well and how long it runs when you do!! One final point - running a computer managed engine at 165> °F (73C) compared to the factory 210°F
(99C) will often cost you as much as 4 MPG. The reason for this is that the computer thinks that the engine is not off the “choke cycle” and it is
still putting out a rich mixture! Check the science on this and don’t pay attention to the “old wives tales” of the past. Materials and lubricants are
much better and different today than they were in the past!!
|
|
|
MikeR
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 11:14 AM |
|
|
infra red is a fun toy but shouldn't be used as fact. Different materials at the same temperature will give different readings. Best thing to do
is to get a probe based temperature sensor.
(before you wonder, i've got an infra red thingy and i love it, i just know its only for guestimating temperatures and isn't accurate)
|
|
|
Marcus
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 11:21 AM |
|
|
Ditto re infrared.
My stainless steel kettle registerd 32°c, so I touched it.
You can guess the rest!!
Marcus
Marcus
Because kits are for girls!!
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 11:21 AM |
|
|
re: Fred W B
interesting ... so I better turn up the thermostat to 11
(seem to recall the Kenlowe set up guide recommends you set the turn on temp quite high)
[Edited on 7/4/06 by 02GF74]
|
|
|
NS Dev
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 11:21 AM |
|
|
Will probably have a play when my car is on the road. I have a 4 channel logger and plenty of thermocouples which we have used before logging charge
air temps on a couple of turbo cars (before and after intercooler, plus egt and ambient at turbine intake) so may well get some facts on mine, if I
have a spare 1/2 day (ho ho ho!)
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
|
|
|
02GF74
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 11:32 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
infra red is a fun toy but shouldn't be used as fact. Different materials at the same temperature will give different readings. Best thing to do
is to get a probe based temperature sensor.
(before you wonder, i've got an infra red thingy and i love it, i just know its only for guestimating temperatures and isn't accurate)
hmmm, I thought it was quite accurate although I did notice that it casn be confused by flourescent lamps.
|
|
|
MikeR
|
| posted on 7/4/06 at 05:42 PM |
|
|
Tell you what Nat, let me have the car for a day and i'll log the data for you, then you've only got to interpret it.
Am I nice or what?
(When's Chris next around ?)
|
|
|
