MikeR
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 04:10 PM |
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Start motor sticking "on" :(
Well one step forwards, one step back.
Got the engine turning over, got the electrics sorted (eventually) and remembered the choke (cough eventually) pressed the big button, turned over
and
she lives .......
except the starter motor is sticking on. Well i assume it is, sounds like something big, spinning something small quickly and the little thing
doesn't like it.
Taken the starter off, looks perfect, pinion moves freely. any suggestions?
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rayward
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 04:14 PM |
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faulty solenoid, or poss battery not fully charged.
Ray
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JoelP
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 04:26 PM |
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when its started, quickly pull the switch wire off the solenoid. Should differentiate between a wiring fault and a mechanical fault.
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MikeR
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 04:26 PM |
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hmmm, hadn't considered solonoid, but when i don't have the sparks running it seems to work fine - ie when i stop pressing the button it
stops spinning the motor.
Battery was fully charged this morning, i'll change over the spare and try again.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 04:53 PM |
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Mike are you using an inertia starter and seperate solonoid? One possible fault would be you have wired in the alternator wire to the wrong connection
on the solonoid and when engine is running/alternator charging the starter has power to it ? Could be sticking solonoid especially if it is old
stock/second hand . Disconnect coil positive and turn engine over on starter , if starter carries on turning after key ie released then solonoid may
be faulty . or check for live feed to starter when engine is running?
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 04:54 PM |
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Check ballast resistor wiring?
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MikeR
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 05:27 PM |
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alternator not wired in.
ballast wire going direct to battery
manually using over ride wire to positive terminal
battery has 12.8volts
starter, removed cleaned, pinion moves freely, pencil graphite added to pinion.
clutch forced down
still no different
am using inertia and solonoid
suspect its not the solonoid as when i disconnect the coil it doesn't keep turning the engine but i'll give it a go bypassing it
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MikeR
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 05:40 PM |
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its not the solonoid.
Can't help thinking it sounds like something not meshing when its turning (only leave it like this for a second cause what ever its doing, it
isn't good).
without the coil connected etc it happily turns the engine over. 
bum, really wanted to fire her up today.
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Chippy
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 10:32 PM |
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What engine are you using, and is the starter the one that came with it? Also is the flywheel the original one from the engine? If the answer to
either of these is NO, then you could have the wrong starter pinion for flywheel. Chippy.
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MikeR
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 10:36 PM |
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Crossflow engine.
it was originally an automatic. To cut a long story short, i've got a 110 tooth inertia flywheel mated to a 10 tooth inertia starter bought off
fleabay.
(and two spare pre-engaged flywheels, a spare pre-engaged motor that won't fit due to my exhaust and a spare inertia being rebuilt 'up
north' by my dad).
whits end ........ not yet, going to try randomly spacing the starter with washers tomorrow to see if it makes a difference.
Just don't understand why when the engine fires its not spinning the pinion out of the way.
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Chippy
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 10:49 PM |
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Not absolutely sure on this, but if not somebody will soon correct me, I seem to recall that there were two starter pinions, and if you have the one
with the most teeth, and should have the other then the starter will not disengage. Hope that makes sence. I think that the starters are identical, so
its just a case of getting, and fitting, the other pinion. atb Chippy
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MikeR
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 10:51 PM |
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The two pinions are 9 and 10 teeth.
My understanding was the 9 teeth one was often confused (on the two bolt housing) with the mini starter. This then causes problems.
Ford changed to the three bolt starter to reduce to the risk of the starter jaming and not starting at all.
Hopefully i'm wrong, you're right and i've got the solution ........ but i need someone to confirm it.
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Chippy
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 10:59 PM |
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Hi Mike, why not just get yourself a nine tooth pinion, and give it a go, cant be that much dosh. Mind you thats if you can buy the pinion as a
seperate part, so often these days its, " sorry guv, only do exchange". Chippy
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MikeR
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| posted on 24/6/06 at 11:01 PM |
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Dads mate used to recon electics for a living. Thats why my old starter is with him. I'm 99% sure that i need a 10 tooth pinion - but i'll
let him decide he knows his stuff & has all the original manuals.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 25/6/06 at 08:11 AM |
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Don't think the fact that the engine was originally an auto should affect the starter . You should have possibly removed a bush from the rear
of the crank and replaced with a spigot bearing. Also have you used the steel plate between the engine and gearbox? Think you normally need the one to
match the gearbox you are using. From memory Fords changed from the 9 teeth pinion to the 10 teeth around the early 70s because of excessive pinion
wear , it was possible to just fit the 10 teeth pinion in place of the 9 teeth using the same starter
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MikeR
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| posted on 25/6/06 at 09:31 AM |
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I've got a hacked together steel plate - todays job is to hack it some more, get pi**ed off then fit one for the type 9 that fouls around the
crank (after i've hacked around the crank area).
Ok, sort of lied about the engine, this is another engine i've got, but i got it without a flywheel.
Just wondering if it does have a spigot bearing as i never checked, mated the engine and box together.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 25/6/06 at 10:04 AM |
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Not sure with the crossflow autos but a lot of other auto engines have a bush in the rear to accept the torque convertor spigot . Spigot bearings
should still be easy to get if you don't have one . A missing spigot bearing will not cause your symptoms though . Try using a decent jump lead
between the solonoid and the starter after disconnecting the starter cable , after engine has started disconnect jump lead . If starter still turns
then problem is with starter/flywheel again . One more thing it's possible that there is a spacer shim ? fitted to the rear of a crossflow crank
when used as an auto
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MikeR
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| posted on 25/6/06 at 10:31 AM |
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as i said in the previous post - this engine wasn't an auto. Its just an engine (seemed easier to explain that then to keep explaining why i
didn't have a flywheel / starter combination already.
tried using a cable direct to teh starter, starts and still doesn't disengage.
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owelly
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| posted on 25/6/06 at 10:44 AM |
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Just out of interest, have you tried it with the mounting bolts loose? Not 'about to drop off' loose, but loose enough to create a bit of
clearance if things are a bit tight.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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MikeR
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| posted on 25/6/06 at 11:01 AM |
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my dad has just called to suggest exactly the same ........
off to the tip to then i'll give it a go.
(hopefully this is a case of great minds etc etc and it proves something but i'm not sure what)
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MikeR
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| posted on 25/6/06 at 11:42 PM |
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got 30 seconds to play with the car before going to watch the england game.
Didn't make a difference. Worried its not the starter and something else.
Next plan is to start praying. if i've got enough time i'll play with the bellhousing thin plate. If i've got lots of time,
i'll remove the gearbox from the engine, fit a spare bellhousing and watch what happens.
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MikeR
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| posted on 26/6/06 at 08:19 PM |
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ok, ground the metal plate bigger just in case it was fouling the starter and forcing it in a direction (its a home made plate) and .........
no joy........
getting worried its something else like the gearbox input shaft or something ...... can't think what though.
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 26/6/06 at 08:40 PM |
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Beginning to suspect your starter may be faulty? The ring gear is on the correct way? should have the chamfer on the teeth on the gearbox side of the
flywheel . If you can try another starter that is known to be OK if it still has problems then it must be the flywheel/ringgear .
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paulf
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| posted on 26/6/06 at 09:24 PM |
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Not sure if you have tried this but I had to space my starter away from the bellhousing with an 8mm spacer.It is a pre engaged one however, but had
the same symptoms, it bolted on ok and started the engine but would not then disegage fully, I never found out why but just put a spacer between and
have had no problems since.
Paul.
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MikeR
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| posted on 26/6/06 at 10:30 PM |
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this is my second starter, first is being professionally reconditioned (by my dad). Have found the new pinion is .5mm smaller than the old one!
Did get a ring gear from burtons and that just jamed on a different flywheel, didn't allow the starter to turn at all, this flywheel turns ok,
just won't disengage.
Have thought about spacing it. but on my spare bell housing that doesn't have a gearbox attached its clear.
Think if i've got time at the w/e i'll remove the engine and box & set the engine up with the spare bell housing and see what happens
(with impact glasses on just in case!) if no one thinks of anything else
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