Steve Lovelock
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 06:05 PM |
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Oil rad - which one?
I am looking in scrap yards for a suitable oil rad for my Luego Velocity using a Vauxhall redtop engine.
Do the pipes all have a standard fitting?
and
Does anybody have a recommendation?
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Stu16v
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 07:08 PM |
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Yeah - dont bother.
Instead, remove the oil filter sandwich plate, and replace with an oil filter stud from an *v VX engine.
Lifts filter up approx an inch, much simpler, less weight
Dont just build it.....make it!
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 07:30 PM |
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Hmm, Have you felt how hot the sump and oil gets even with the cooler!
Not sure i'd be happy running without
Then again maybe that proves how effective the oil cooler is lol.
(or that when in FWD heat rises up from the exhaust and makes the sump appear hotter I suppose)
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02GF74
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 07:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Lovelock
Do the pipes all have a standard fitting?
and
Does anybody have a recommendation?
probably not; cpmmpn size on bristich cars would be 1/2 in BSP.
beware that most factory cooler tend to have crimpe on hoses at the radiator end and cromped on connector on the other; you would need to cut the
hose and fit a new connector if you needto shorten or length then hose.
thinkauto is the place for all you oil cooling needs.
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david walker
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 07:46 PM |
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So how hot is it without an oil cooler? How much will the oil cooler cool it by? When is the oil too hot? For that matter have you considered how much
oil pressure you will lose by fitting an oil cooler?
Stu16v is as usual, right. Ditch the oil cooler and fit the filter direct. The only thing I'll say is that when you throw the sandwich plate in
the scrap bin you'll be left without the threaded portion in the oil pump to screw the oil filter onto. You'll need to extract one from
any (later than about '86) Vauxhall engine block that has the block side mounted filter, ie 1200, 1300, 1400, 1600. Or obtain one from Vauxhall.
I'll come back soon with part number.
The threaded bit, it's proper name escapes me, can be grasped with mole grips and unscrewed. Sounds crude but usually works. Any light damage
can be cleaned up later without detriment. Screw that into your XE pump and fit your filter directly to that.
Dave Walker, Race Engine Services - 07957 454659 or 01636 671277
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Stu16v
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 07:46 PM |
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Yep, I've felt how hot it gets. And I (and many others) have thrashed the living daylights out of 16v motors without an oil cooler without issue
for years...
Each to their own, but unless you have really big BHP, you don't need one with a 16v
Dont just build it.....make it!
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Stu16v
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 07:50 PM |
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Oil filter stud P/N = V0090322488 
Dont just build it.....make it!
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 08:05 PM |
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Fair enough on the temperature front I was just suprised how hot they get with the cooler never mind without.
On Astra Digi dash guages you do loose 2 bars (as in incriments) of pressure at idle when the cooler opens, but this does climb immediately with the
slightest blip of the throttle back to full.
Are they still OK with no cooler in FWD applications as my oil pipes get in the way?
Do you have to change the oil more often? or any other issues like that?
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the_fbi
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 08:30 PM |
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I hate to go against Dave Walkers advice. But I'd keep the cooler.
All XE (20 or C20) installs came out of the factory with a cooler, yes it was a blinking small one, but with regards to oil pressure the system was
designed to cope with it being there, so it will cope.
If you are really worried about oil pressure then stick on the pump from a X20XEV which is higher pressure.
Personally I'd be thinking about using a larger cooler (and stick a fan on it) rather than none at all and get your local hydraulics place to
make up the hoses for you.
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Stu16v
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 08:34 PM |
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I ran my Mk3 Cavalier with a 16v in (used to have a 1600 8v) without an oil cooler for approx four years. Never took it on a track day, but I used to
drive it like I stole it (young and stupid then).
When Vauxhall designed these cars, they had to assume that folk might be thrashing the arse off them in hot countries too. They *may* have even fitted
oil coolers for homologation purposes. In the real world, a VX makes a few more BHP than a Zetec, which does just fine without...
Dont just build it.....make it!
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the_fbi
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 08:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Stu16v
I In the real world, a VX makes a few more BHP than a Zetec, which does just fine without...
20XE make 20% more power than a 2L Zetec though!
(ST170 has an oil cooler and less than 9% more power than a 20XE)
[Edited on 30/8/06 by the_fbi]
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Stu16v
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 09:16 PM |
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And very rarely would you be able to exploit the 20% difference in power (15% if you work it out using the more common 150bhp retop). In fact, a Zetec
will be being thrashed harder to keep up, so the oil is likely to be getting hotter...
Need further proof? The VX in my current car has done 150,000 miles now - and has never been rebuilt. I did reshell the bottom end, but only because i
fitted ARP rod bolts, so I could rev the nads off it. I fitted it with 137,000 showing on the donor car. I have done on average at least six trackdays
a year, and I show it no mercy whatsoever.
OK, it does get two oil changes a year, and I use good quality oil. But I think that is only fair for the abuse I give it...
[Edited on 30/8/06 by Stu16v]
Dont just build it.....make it!
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 12:01 AM |
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Not particularly worried about the pressure, just under the asumption that if it was fitted with one then its required (point taken about the type of
coutries the donor car was supplied to, although the small rads in the 7's won't help).
Would the oil capacity also not be reduced by about 1L or so by removing the cooler and associated pipework as well? will that not have much
effect?
Maybe in the 7 it could be sacrifced but not sure about in FWD format.
Although weight wise they are "less stressed" in the 7's setup I would have thoght there more likey to be "reved harder"
even with the best of intentions!
The engine design overall seems to be a little like a K-series in that it gets upto temperature very quickly yet manages to maintain it without
overheating.
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roadboy
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 02:27 PM |
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After thrashing our dry sumped Zetec around Cadwell. oil temp was up to 113c so we are now fitting a cooler to stabilise oil temp. The oil was not a
very good quality but was semi synthetic as we were using it for running in. Now filling with Valvoline 15/50 fully synth & fitting a 10 row
cooler which should be adequate.
A good thrashing at Croft on Saturday will tell.
Regds
Ian
Jude Performance Services
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Steve Lovelock
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 07:15 PM |
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I understand the arguments for getting rid of an oil cooler and it would be less hassle but I would just prefer to keep one. I don't want the
agro of an over hot engine and the inevitable nagging in my mind that I should have done it properly in the first place.
This brings me back to the original question though. I remember reading the Velocity build in Kit Car Magazine a few years back and he 'just
popped to the breaks and picked one up' for a small amount of money. When I was there today it was a minefield so I would appreciate
suggestions as to suitable donors please.
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the_fbi
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 07:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Lovelock
This brings me back to the original question though.
If you can afford it, then a Mocal one from Think Auto. http://www.thinkauto.com/
Or these guys have a good selection.
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/The-Automobilia-Centre
Or, if your looking for cheap, then one or 2 from any of the Vaux's fitted with XE's will do you. Can't see them being more than £5
from a scrappy and plenty of Vaux breakers to try too, and eBay.
The pipework will probably be as expensive though, for some good braided hoses from a hydraulic place.
Std Vaux one looks like http://cgi1.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MakeTrack&item=4645584771
Some very good info in terms of size/temps on this ad too.
http://cgi1.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MakeTrack&item=150001494643
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Peteff
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 07:39 PM |
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We found a nice oil cooler on an ex mod Sherpa pickup for a car my mate built and the scrapyard only asked £5 for it.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 08:30 PM |
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Whatever you get it off make sure you get the hoses if there suitable for use,
As mentioned they cost a fortune, I was quoted £86 each from Vauxhall for them!.
The standard Vauxhall cooler has solid pipes (maybe removable can't remember) that then go ot flexy so that may not help in trying to squeeze it
in.
Alot of automatic cars have transmission oil coolers that are pretty big and usually infront of or behind the standard rad should imagine they'd
be suitable.
Should imagine alot of the bigger cars had them, omegas, BMW's Mercs etc
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