DarrenW
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 posted on 16/11/06 at 11:11 AM |
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Lambda gauge - how do you do it??
Ive heard a few people saying how they have used a lambda sensor in a car that wouldnt normally need one to improve how the carbs etc are set up.
Are you talking about a locost version of one of these???
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Innovate-XD-16-Wideband-Gauge-Kit-AFM-Lambda-02-Sensor_W0QQitemZ290048960711QQihZ019QQcategoryZ72205QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Would anyone be so kind as to explain how they have done it please?
Do you need to fit a lambda sensor in the exhaust manifold?
Cheers,
Darren.
[Edited on 16/11/06 by DarrenW]
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DarrenW
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 11:44 AM |
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Thanks Rob. Your help is greatly appreciated.
The electronic circuit has scared the hell out of me Look out for U2U.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 12:16 PM |
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Interesting ebay add for a lambda sensor!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BRAND-NEW-Oxygen-Lambda-sensor-o2-AUDI-VW-FORD-SEAT_W0QQitemZ280048662537QQihZ018QQcategoryZ10372QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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nitram38
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 01:08 PM |
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If you are not an electronics wiz, this set up costs around £75.
This includes readout gauge, lambda sensor and bush/plug.
CLICK
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DarrenW
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 02:24 PM |
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Im doing some searching. I dont want to get into the pros and cons of wideband vs narrowband. For me at the mo im looking into locost options for at
least getting some sort of reading on the basis that something is better than nothing.
However () just seen this on Clio website. Looks like someone has developed a wideband set up for sub £200.
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=130057
(im just waiting for Rob to feel sorry for me and offer to build one or give me an idiots guide)
Ive also seen a few posts by trikerneil that reference various gauges and articles.
[Edited on 16/11/06 by DarrenW]
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 02:41 PM |
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you need wideband darren really, narrow band is a pig to work with on an unknown setup, you need to be somewhere close to begin with (as in very
close) for narrow band to be any good.
Wideband and narrow band lambdas work in TOTALLY different ways internally, narrow band uses a simple electrochemical cell, wideband uses that as a
tool internally, but the output is created from an oxygen ion pumping cell that compensates to keep the narrow band cell working to stoicheometric,
then measuring how much work it had to do to keep it there, in simple terms.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DarrenW
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 03:11 PM |
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Thats kind of what my research has revealed as well Nat. The disadvantage of wideband is the cost element. At least with narrowband its a little
project that can be done in comfort of home on dark and cold nights
At least with narrow band it will give far more info that not measuring at all. One of the problems ive had with my current set up is ive never
bothered with rolling road due to impending changes so have made do with a badly set up carb etc. If i had this already i could have at least got it
closer.
My only limiting factor so far is electronics skills but ive been brushing up and think ive sussed it all. I just need to find out where to get the
bits from when i get paid if i decide to give it all a whirl. Im sure when i start searching the catalogues there will be a whole heap of other
questions.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 03:14 PM |
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remember to weigh up what a rolling road session costs vs the cost of the lambda.............rolling road is worthwhile, are Teeside Motor Factors
still going, they are pretty good.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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nitram38
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 03:21 PM |
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I am interested in a lambda gauge as I have a power commander on an R1 engine.
I was hoping to get a basic set up but it will probably cheaper to take the car to a dyno and get 2 maps done.
One for sva emmissions and the other for afterwards
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DarrenW
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 03:39 PM |
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I assume you mean Teesside Autotech in Thornaby Nat. I didnt realise they had Rolling road. Just checked website. Yes they are still going. They are
most likely to get the servicing contract on my BMW now its out of main dealer warranty.
I know the narrowband project is pretty crude etc, ive just got in my head that its something i can mess on with making whilst im not doing owt else!
Better than watching celebrity.
Only prob now is sourcing the bits, ill be best off going to a shop so i can see everything and talk to someone otherwise ill miss something.
RS have the IC's but the volt reg is now discontinued!! Havent looked at resistors and leds yet but knowing my luck ill have to buy 100 at a
time!! Basic maths says it will be 30 - 35 quid to make inc sensor, maybe a touch more. However i can buy a ready made gauge for either £40 or £55
depending on led or digi readout.
More choices - im driving myself slowly mad!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 07:35 PM |
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No, I mean this place:
Teeside Motor Factors
Mr P Dunn/Mrs P Dunn
15-19 Station Street
Middlesborough
Cleveland
TS1 1SR
Tel: 01642 232222
Paul Dunn runs (well ran it in 1996) the place, good rollers in the northeast
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DarrenW
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| posted on 16/11/06 at 11:47 PM |
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Thanks for the details Nat. looks like they may well be if this forum is anything to go by. I must ask - how on earth do you know of them??????
Memories akin to elephants spring to mind!
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 17/11/06 at 04:03 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
RS have the IC's but the volt reg is now discontinued!!
The 7805? Theres no way that will be completely discontinued, easily the most popular linear regulator ever manufactured.
Had a quick look, part 516-4878 will be fine, 38 pence.
That said, having 20 LED's for a narrow band sensor is huge overkill, you could get away with two leds, one for rich and one for lean as the
narrow band sensor really doesn't tell you much more than that.
[Edited on 17/11/06 by MikeRJ]
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 17/11/06 at 08:14 AM |
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Bill Shurvinton sells the innovate LC1 wideband kit incl sensor for 136.50 delivered. You can find them for a bit more on ebay. This give you a
configurable analogue voltage output proportional to air/fuel ratio which you can hook up to whatever you like (voltmeter, LED array, proper AFR
gauge) should come in easily sub £200 whatever type of display you use.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 17/11/06 at 10:39 AM |
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Does Bill have a website or something similar with his products displayed? Sounds interesting.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 17/11/06 at 11:25 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
Thanks for the details Nat. looks like they may well be if this forum is anything to go by. I must ask - how on earth do you know of them??????
Memories akin to elephants spring to mind!
Heh heh!! its a bit like that, I have a very good memory for the dim and distant but rubbish short term!
If you do end up going there ask paul dunn about his nitroused XE 16v nova that he had in 1996!
long story but that was when Emerald were developing the M3D EMS and they had my engine, and Paul's Nova, down at their workshops in Brixton in
London sorting out how to do the crank sensor and trigger wheel setup etc.
They were also running the nitrous solonoids from the ECU if memory serves me right. I seem to recall something of a nitrous pipe burst as well at
some stage, though I wasn't there for that one!
This was back when I put the 16v on throttle bodies in my Manta road car. Its the same engine as is in my grasser now, but on MBE 956 ecu.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DarrenW
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| posted on 17/11/06 at 12:18 PM |
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Nat - words fail me....
Can anyone make sense of any of this????
http://www.wbo2.com/
They supply off the shelf wideband diy kits. Before you get excited its an Australian site.
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nitram38
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| posted on 17/11/06 at 12:22 PM |
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They have a uk outlet Click
Don't get too excited it costs £395 to £410 !!!!!!!!!!
[Edited on 17/11/2006 by nitram38]
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 17/11/06 at 04:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
Does Bill have a website or something similar with his products displayed? Sounds interesting.
Nope, but you can find out all about the product on the innovate site here: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTS.php
Bill sells these and MS kits pretty much as a hobby, but is cheaper that anyone else in the UK and mine arrive within 2 days of paying by paypal so
he's pretty efficient. As I said, you can configure 2 separate outputs from the lc1 individually so that a particular AFR = a particular
voltage. Or you can use a specific AFR guage. I use one that gives 0-5v for 10:1 - 20:1 wired into my megasquirt and may rig a guage to the other for
the hell of it. I believe if you buy a proper guage then it connects to the device's serial port and deosn't use the analogue output.
Edit: You can email Bill at bill@shurvinton.fsworld.co.uk - he's usually pretty quick to reply with a price. He'll take cheque, cash, bank
transfer or paypal I believe.
[Edited on 17/11/06 by matt_claydon]
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givemethebighammer
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| posted on 17/11/06 at 08:45 PM |
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I have an LC1 wideband which I have connected to a digital AFR meter that reads as AFR i.e. 20.0 - 8.0 not just a voltage reading. I have this blue
tac'ed to the dash in front of me and the laptop running logworks in the passenger footwell recording the AFR. I have successfully tuned my bike
carbs with this setup and rejetting the carbs due to a recent change to an airbox to reduce trackday noise was easy.
I tried a cheap narrowband sensor and gauge but to be honest with 11 LEDs it reacted so quickly (narrow band) it was hard to tell really what the AFR
was.
ps I don't have this lot connected all the time just when I am tuning the carbs or messing around with the ignition maps.
[Edited on 17/11/06 by givemethebighammer]
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TangoMan
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| posted on 18/11/06 at 09:32 AM |
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This all looks very interesting and seems to be the way to go with getting the set up right. For the cost of four bung and plugs it would be easy to
set up each carb seperately.
Can anyone tell me if this would run with the standard Ford Zetec Lambda sensor or would I need a specific wideband one. I notice the price changes
significantly if you purchase the kit with a sensor.
Thanks,
Steve
Summer's here!!!!
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 18/11/06 at 09:51 AM |
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Wideband is definitely the way to go. BUT, don't rule out the narrow band. They're cheap and fairly easy to rig up, for but a few pence
and a good second hand sensor.(Or cheap new, for that matter.)
Yes,they are fiddly. You need to have a volt meter on it ideally, with the central operating area of the sensor amplified.
I persevered with a narrow for a long time. With a volt meter attached(and it needs to be reading from an opamp buffer wired as a voltage follower, to
negate the drop caused by the meter), you can see when the voltage is high or low, and move the mixture accordingly.
When you get near centre, things get exciting, and that's where the wide band is a whole lot easier on life.
Cheers,
Syd. 
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givemethebighammer
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| posted on 18/11/06 at 10:54 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by TangoMan
This all looks very interesting and seems to be the way to go with getting the set up right. For the cost of four bung and plugs it would be easy to
set up each carb seperately.
Can anyone tell me if this would run with the standard Ford Zetec Lambda sensor or would I need a specific wideband one. I notice the price changes
significantly if you purchase the kit with a sensor.
Thanks,
Steve
I believe the one supplied with the innovate wideband kits is a VW / VAG one as fitted to recent Golfs etc, a quick search on the innovate website
should confirm this.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10
[Edited on 18/11/06 by givemethebighammer]
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