se7ensport
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 05:37 PM |
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More power needed poss engine swap
Not sure what to do, I want more torque and BHP, I currently have a brand new pinto 2.0 (205 block) running bake carbs and weber alpha ECU putting out
140ish bhp.
Simply put it's not enough, I'm after 180-200 bhp, the two options I have are:
1. more power from current engine, but it gets costly very quickly and becomes more of a race engine than for road use.
2. change the engine (however, selection is limited due to car body work and engine bay layout I have to stick with exhausts exiting on the drivers
side!), the obvious option is Duratec, I can keep existing g/box, get new bell housing and convert to hydraulic clutch (so £400 on top of cost of
engine :-( ) I'd probably need another ECU & then may as well go for TB's.
Any other engine suggestions? And bike is not an option, I want torque not just BHP at 10000rpm
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coozer
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 05:39 PM |
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The Duratec option is the way to go... well over 200bhp very easy to achieve indeed.
Althouth its obviously not very locost it should be worth the initial outlay.
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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rayward
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 05:45 PM |
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NOS!!!!
Ray
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Memphis Twin
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 06:07 PM |
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Get yourself a "Dave Brooks" modified Pinto head with race camshaft. Your present bottom end will be fine as long as you set a sensible
rev limit of say 7400rpm, and replace with K-max or ARP rod bolts. You'll need carbs with a choke area of at least 38mm (what size is currently
fitted?), set up on a rolling-road. You'll also need an 4-1 exhaust system with at least 1 3/4" 45mm primaries of around 30" length.
You may already have this. This will still give a torquey road driveable motor, but with massive midrange and top-end gains.
Dave Brooks has forgotten more about Pinto tuning than some other so-called tuners ever knew. The head will not be cheap, but MUCH cheaper than
fitting a Duratec of similar horsepower.
And you don't even need to take your engine out 
Search the web for Dave Brooks Engines. He's in Crewe Cheshire.
Cheers Chris.
[Edited on 30/1/07 by Memphis Twin]
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 06:09 PM |
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I think that you should do a search on bike engines and torque for BECS
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se7ensport
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 07:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Memphis Twin
... You'll need carbs with a choke area of at least 38mm (what size is currently fitted?), set up on a rolling-road. You'll also need an
4-1 exhaust system with at least 1 3/4" 45mm primaries of around 30" length.......
I'll look in to the dave brooks heads, i've got Keihin 40mm carbs and approx 30" primaries already.
NOS while cool, isn't a route I want to go down, I want the power there all the time without having to get refills etc...
The Duratec appeals but the cost is a major downside as I have to change a lot and it all adds up....
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NS Dev
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 07:33 PM |
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Vauxhall XE engine??
I know I am always mentioning it but 200ish hp straight out of the box, off the shelf bellhousing cheaper than a duratec one, base engine is
effectively free if you do it right (my last one was) then you can spend the cash on throttle bodies etc.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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se7ensport
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 07:47 PM |
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NS Dev, more than happy to consider an XE, I know they are powerful and cheap which is what I need (I know you are always banging on about them ),
but which side does the exhaust exit as it's a constraint on engine choice? 
ps are all Vaxhall engines the same bellhouse pattern?
[Edited on 30/1/07 by se7ensport]
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 08:39 PM |
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An XE would be on the passenger side of the car i'm afraid, think there's only the Pinto and the Duratec I can think of with them on the
drivers side.
Am tranna picture it..to be a drivers side exit it'd either have to already be RWD and on the correct side.. or a FWD car with the gear box on
the drivers side and the exhaust coming out of the front of the engine? Hmmm
There any chance of a V6 or V8 in there, then you'd have an exhaust both sides 
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mookaloid
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 08:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Memphis Twin
Get yourself a "Dave Brooks" modified Pinto head with race camshaft. Your present bottom end will be fine as long as you set a sensible
rev limit of say 7400rpm, and replace with K-max or ARP rod bolts. You'll need carbs with a choke area of at least 38mm (what size is currently
fitted?), set up on a rolling-road. You'll also need an 4-1 exhaust system with at least 1 3/4" 45mm primaries of around 30" length.
You may already have this. This will still give a torquey road driveable motor, but with massive midrange and top-end gains.
Dave Brooks has forgotten more about Pinto tuning than some other so-called tuners ever knew. The head will not be cheap, but MUCH cheaper than
fitting a Duratec of similar horsepower.
And you don't even need to take your engine out
Search the web for Dave Brooks Engines. He's in Crewe Cheshire.
Cheers Chris.
[Edited on 30/1/07 by Memphis Twin]
I'm running a similar spec Pinto to this giving about 150BHP at the wheels and it's ok pootling about too
If I recall the head work cost me about £350
Much cheaper than a duratec and pulls really well.
Video indy here
Cheers
Mark
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 08:59 PM |
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turbo ?
bmw , jap , volvo all exit on the right exhaust wise
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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se7ensport
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 09:05 PM |
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I'd happily mod the pinto for the time being as it will save a lot of ball ache I could do without, my big concern is that while 180 flywheel
150 wheels is achievable it would all be top end and limit the driveablity.
Cheers
Alex
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Coose
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 09:11 PM |
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A Puma Zetec? Their exhaust exits on the drivers side, plus you have the added bonus that they were designed by Yamaha!
Spin 'er off Well...
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se7ensport
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 09:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
turbo ?
bmw , jap , volvo all exit on the right exhaust wise
interesting, not a fan of tubo's due to lag, but supercharger would be fun...
is that all jap engines? mx5 + charger would do (not cheap)! any nissans without tubos with power? rotary engine i.e. RX8?
volvo/bmw not common locost choices, are they heavy?
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Memphis Twin
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 09:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
quote:
Originally posted by Memphis Twin
Get yourself a "Dave Brooks" modified Pinto head with race camshaft. Your present bottom end will be fine as long as you set a sensible
rev limit of say 7400rpm, and replace with K-max or ARP rod bolts. You'll need carbs with a choke area of at least 38mm (what size is currently
fitted?), set up on a rolling-road. You'll also need an 4-1 exhaust system with at least 1 3/4" 45mm primaries of around 30" length.
You may already have this. This will still give a torquey road driveable motor, but with massive midrange and top-end gains.
Dave Brooks has forgotten more about Pinto tuning than some other so-called tuners ever knew. The head will not be cheap, but MUCH cheaper than
fitting a Duratec of similar horsepower.
And you don't even need to take your engine out
Search the web for Dave Brooks Engines. He's in Crewe Cheshire.
Cheers Chris.
[Edited on 30/1/07 by Memphis Twin]
I'm running a similar spec Pinto to this giving about 150BHP at the wheels and it's ok pootling about too
If I recall the head work cost me about £350
Much cheaper than a duratec and pulls really well.
Video indy here
Cheers
Mark
A friend of mine installed an "SP Performance" race head on his 2.1 Pinto witha Kent RC31 (i think) cam and 48 Dellortos into his
hillclimb/sprint Westfield. His power output in the same car, on the same (accurate) rollers as before went from 140 ish at the wheels to 182bhp at
the wheels. His rev limit was 7000rpm, but rarely needed to rev that high as maximum power was at 6700.
His time at Harewood hillclimb dropped from a pb of 69secs to 66secs, instantly. These are no-bullshit, tangible,recorded results.
I believe he got his times down even further, and most of the course was completed in 3rd gear; such was the midrange torque. The Dave Brooks head
is, if anything, even better. It's the head that's important on a Pinto- the bottom end just has to hang together!
Cheers Chris.
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roadrunner
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 10:10 PM |
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Super charger, whats the pro's and cons, any one know.
[Edited on 30/1/07 by roadrunner]
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BenB
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 10:19 PM |
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Supercharger.....
Pro's
- no turbo lag
- constant power hike (unlike NOS) without need for capacity increase
- often quite linear power increases (unlike crazy boost turbo)
Cons
- heat inlet charge (so may need intercooler, water spray, decompression plates etc to stop detonation)
- turning the supercharger takes up power (in the 10s of HP)...
- s/c kits aren't as widely available as turbo conversions for most engines
- blow through systems often require changing the carbs / throttle bodies (most aren't designed for forced induction), changing to suck-through
requires a new carb / body in most cases
- DIY supercharger setup can get quite costly (especially when you're learning as you go), you might be better off going for a known route to
known power (e.g. turbo, engine swap etc).
It's probably not the easiest route to more power. But the whine of a supercharger and the knowledge that it's DIY is attractive....
You could of course wack in a VX and repanel the side of the car (quicker than doing a DIY supercharger installation!!!)...
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 30/1/07 at 11:36 PM |
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volvo engine is no heavier than pinto , and its 2.3 . its not popular because people dont know about it .
rotary engine would be a neat idea tho , definitely fit under the hood .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Memphis Twin
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| posted on 31/1/07 at 12:06 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
volvo engine is no heavier than pinto , and its 2.3 . its not popular because people dont know about it .
rotary engine would be a neat idea tho , definitely fit under the hood .
I'm a big fan of the Volvo B23 and B230 engines. Big valves, great porting (especially the B230k) and strong bottom end. Cam actuated by buckets
and shims, not some archaic rocker, and easily bored to 2.5 litres.
That's got me thinking 
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procomp
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| posted on 31/1/07 at 08:47 AM |
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Hi by going duratec you will also be loosing anawfull lot of weight from the front end compared to the pinto which will also improve the front end
handeling on a light weight car like yours.
A bit of reasearch on the kits the northern agent for RAW STRIKER are doing as they are fitting noble motorsport supplied duratecs to thier cars so
all the bits and problems for your aplication should be sorted as there isnt that much difference between the two chassis and setup.
cheers matt
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 31/1/07 at 05:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Memphis Twin
quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
volvo engine is no heavier than pinto , and its 2.3 . its not popular because people dont know about it .
rotary engine would be a neat idea tho , definitely fit under the hood .
I'm a big fan of the Volvo B23 and B230 engines. Big valves, great porting (especially the B230k) and strong bottom end. Cam actuated by buckets
and shims, not some archaic rocker, and easily bored to 2.5 litres.
That's got me thinking
actually the B230K with a heron head , is th elemon of the range - since most get neglected , altho high compression and being able to run on 3 star ,
the more conventional heart shaped combustion chamber in the head is more desirable , especially with a 531 casting from a B230ET .
i have a set of 48x40 mm valves and double valve springs to go in mine, along with a Tu117 cam from sten parner - the 117 being the lobe centre angle
for turbo use .
ive built a 2.5 engine for a customer , that involved forged rods and venolia pistons with a marine crank which without an overbore took the engine
out to 2.5 litres .
it should settle in at around 500 hp and 600 nm
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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sebastiaan
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| posted on 31/1/07 at 06:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Memphis Twin
A friend of mine installed an "SP Performance" race head on his 2.1 Pinto witha Kent RC31 (i think) cam and 48 Dellortos into his
hillclimb/sprint Westfield. His power output in the same car, on the same (accurate) rollers as before went from 140 ish at the wheels to 182bhp at
the wheels. His rev limit was 7000rpm, but rarely needed to rev that high as maximum power was at 6700.
His time at Harewood hillclimb dropped from a pb of 69secs to 66secs, instantly. These are no-bullshit, tangible,recorded results.
I believe he got his times down even further, and most of the course was completed in 3rd gear; such was the midrange torque. The Dave Brooks head
is, if anything, even better. It's the head that's important on a Pinto- the bottom end just has to hang together!
Cheers Chris.
182BHP at the wheels would be around 182*1.15=209BHP=154kW at the crank. To get to that power at 6700RPM, the engine would have to put out
154000/(2*pi*(6700/60))=220Nm (or 162 lb.ft)
Seems improbable to me, since modern (direct injection, variable cam timing, variable inlet manifolds) only just get to these figures at lower engine
speeds. In other words: that's a LOT of air to flow through a 2 valve head...
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se7ensport
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| posted on 31/1/07 at 07:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
it should settle in at around 500 hp and 600 nm
From a Volvo! i'll be looking at them in a different light in future, I assume that it's turboed?
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 31/1/07 at 09:13 PM |
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yeah , turboed, 2 bar boost .
16v versions can go a bit further .
the t4/t5 engine should be popular , but there fwd units and gave much the same problems as another ford motor et al .
gearbox adapters are available from sweden to fit the getrag box onto all of them .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 31/1/07 at 09:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
gearbox adapters are available from sweden to fit the getrag box onto all of them .
At a big cost?
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