Kingacx
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 02:37 PM |
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Engine.....which....
Hi,just starting my first build,ive decided i fancy a nice juicy duratec lump for my build,has any one ever used the duratec ST170 lump? as i know a
normal duratec can go roughly 220bhp quite easy,what about the 170? still able to use bike carbs etc?
Also whats the advantage of the duratec over the zetec? just lighter etc...
Also....great site! ive been on here reading for weeks! lol
Thanks
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Kingacx
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 02:38 PM |
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Right ,Duratec is out,as there about 1k, ive located a ST170engine 600quid posted to my door,do i go for that?
Or ive been talking to some1 who says a redtop might be easier work?
What gearbox etc do i use with a redtop vauxhall??
What do you think?? Red Top or ST170???
what power could i get out of both??
Lots of questions for you guys!
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graememk
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 02:41 PM |
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wheres hellfire ?
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 02:41 PM |
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JAG ENGINE 
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 02:43 PM |
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Hi
whats wrong with the Mega Bike Engine
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james h
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 02:43 PM |
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no no no no
BEC!!!!
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nick205
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 02:47 PM |
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Isn't the ST170 a Zetec engine?
All the engines you suggest work well in a 7 and all would typically be mated to a Ford type 9 g/box although mods are required to do this. The VX
red top engine would need a different bell housing to match the bolt patterns, but these are readily available.
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Duncan_P
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 02:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Isn't the ST170 a Zetec engine?
All the engines you suggest work well in a 7 and all would typically be mated to a Ford type 9 g/box although mods are required to do this. The VX
red top engine would need a different bell housing to match the bolt patterns, but these are readily available.
As nick says if this is an engine out of a Focus ST170 then it isnt actually a true duratec as such....more a trick Zetec engine.
Taking that into consideration £600 is a bit of a premium over the £50 I paid for my standard Zetec....although admittidly it is a better engine.
Basically it all comes down to 'hourses for courses', £££'s and personal preference which engine you go for
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Duncan_P
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 03:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Kingacx
Engine.....which....
THIS ONE
 
Ultimate se7en engine?
[Edited on 19/7/07 by Duncan_P]
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james h
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 03:07 PM |
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hey, isnt that the one which is 2 bike engines stuck together?
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twybrow
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 03:11 PM |
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ST170 is a Zetec with variable valve timing. As previously said, it really depends upon what you want, how much u wanna spend etc. Red Top is good, as
they are plentiful (within reason), make very good power standard and probably wont require cat (pre-95). They do need a few mods to make 'em
reliable (nothing major) and you will need a new bellhousing (£100+). Zetec is much cheaper to purchase engine (from free upwards), and bolts straight
to Type-9. However, they do produce less grunt and require a lot more work for serious power (200bhp). Furthermore, early Zetecs (2.0) command a
premium as they wont require a cat.
Don't just think about the cost of the bare engine, as some may require a lot of other mods to fit in a 7 (eg Duratec). For cheap bang/buck, Red
Top would be hard to beat....
Finally, the best choice until last - a bike engine! Screaming soundtrack, cheap(ish), light weight and a free sequentila gearbox - what more could
you ask for!?
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Duncan_P
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 03:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by james h
hey, isnt that the one which is 2 bike engines stuck together?
Yep.....
Although i think PowerTec might take slight umbrage with it being called '2 bike engines stuck together'  . From memory the only bits
from the bike engine are the two busa cylinder heads, the rest is bespoke.
But the stats speak from themselves:-
2.8 liters
88kg (Dry Weight)
450bhp (ish) 
But the price is a comparable to go with those stats. But if money were no object then.....
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DarrenW
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 03:17 PM |
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Would you need some trick electronics to make the variable cam timing of a ST170 Zetec work in a 7??
I seem to recall some people using the variable cam MGF engine and having a 2 position switch. Ie cam timing not truly variable but still able to
switch presumable between road and track modes.
I cat help thinking a true zetec with head work and decent fuel system would be similar cost and power and poss more reliable. (less tricky bits to go
wrong?)
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Duncan_P
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 03:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
Would you need some trick electronics to make the variable cam timing of a ST170 Zetec work in a 7??
I seem to recall some people using the variable cam MGF engine and having a 2 position switch. Ie cam timing not truly variable but still able to
switch presumable between road and track modes.
I cat help thinking a true zetec with head work and decent fuel system would be similar cost and power and poss more reliable. (less tricky bits to go
wrong?)
I would go with DarrenW here....
I have seen one of these engines in a 7, I think they used the shift light ouput from the ECU to control the cam timing but that is getting fairly
complex.
I dont know about you but i want my first build to be as simple as possible.
Standard Zetec with throttle bodies/carbs and a new exhaust should be about 150-160bhp.
Add better cams to that and you will be heading towards 200bhp.
/\ Dont quote me on these figures
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iank
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 03:33 PM |
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The Emerald ecu can apparently deal with VVC.
http://www.emeraldm3d.com/em_projects_VVC.html
I'm sure megasquirt/megajolt could be persuaded as well, but carb tuning might be 'entertaining' - you wouldn't be able to use
the switch on the dash hack in that case.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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AlphaX
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 03:34 PM |
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audi power, proper power!
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nick205
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 03:45 PM |
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Now that's the bugger to use! How I wish to build a car with something like that uner the bonnet.
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan_P
quote:
Originally posted by Kingacx
Engine.....which....
THIS ONE
Ultimate se7en engine?
[Edited on 19/7/07 by Duncan_P]
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 03:49 PM |
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Most (all?) VVT systems just switch between 2 profiles at a certain RPM and Megasquirt can easily deal with this. If the timing was somehow genuinely
'variable' then it would be more difficult, but a clever person could probably make it work.
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Wadders
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 06:21 PM |
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I had a conversation with dave walker about VVT and he reckoned vvt was all about emmissions, and nothing to do with performance, so i would have to
guess it would be possible to lock the cams at full advance, or as said have it switching on/off at a certain pre determined RPM. The engine in
question was this, its sat in a corner of my workshop waiting for the right chassis/body to live in. 
Al.
 
Description
Originally posted by matt_claydon
Most (all?) VVT systems just switch between 2 profiles at a certain RPM and Megasquirt can easily deal with this. If the timing was somehow genuinely
'variable' then it would be more difficult, but a clever person could probably make it work.
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 06:23 PM |
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quote:
2.8 liters
88kg (Dry Weight)
450bhp (ish)
Thats not bad
[Edited on 19-7-07 by speedyxjs]
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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dirty130
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 06:47 PM |
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engine which
A red top is a good engine, personally if ur a first time builder a pinto is a nice easy start and will give u of fun. Bascily picking an engine you
have to find 1 that is popular becuase parts and cheap and easy to come by and there will be loads of knowledge about the engines. Redtop or zetec are
good.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 06:56 PM |
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Most of the VVC gear on the K series can be removed and more normal cams put in. A decent k can go to 200+ bhp with a VVC head with that done. If I
remember right that is.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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adithorp
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 07:06 PM |
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I thought the ST170 was a modifyed 5 cylinder Volvo engine?
Adrian
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Duncan_P
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| posted on 19/7/07 at 09:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
I thought the ST170 was a modifyed 5 cylinder Volvo engine?
Adrian
Your thinking of the engine from a MkII focus ST, which is indeed a 5 cylinder volvo turbo engine.
ST170 was from MKI focus and was badged as ST170 rather than just ST
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Kingacx
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| posted on 20/7/07 at 11:11 AM |
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right so im guessin the st170 isnt as straight forward as i thought!!
With the sounds of all this il go for a redtop i think,only think that put me off it before was the fact there all going to be 1324252miles on the
engines,an i was sure what box to use,but if you still use a type 9 thats ok as i have one
Lastly ,ive given up the idea of a bec in this one as there just to heavy,il wait an get an avon or something smaller to drop on into,otherwise il
sound daft when im using the car for everyday ish stuff an setting of with 8k of revs lol
thanks then guys,an tips on choosin a redtop??
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