Right - fast comming to the stage where I want to paint my chassis. I was originally planning on getting it blasted then powder coated but this is gonna work out very expensive. So I think I'm gonna spend hours going over it with a wire brush attatchment/wet and dry then paint it myself. This way I can cover it now and stop further rust and still rub bits away to weld anything on i've forgotten later, and touch up the paint.

I just read the earlier thread about chassis painting and will ponder over the various options - etcher, red oxide primer, tractol etc etc. But before I spend ages getting back to good clean metal, am i right assuming all these options require clean metal completely free of surface rust? My surface rust comes off easy but it's all over the chassis and will take yonks to remove (but is strangely satisfying to do).

Also, what's the difference between stuff like etcher, red oxide, rust preventative primer, the grey primer you can buy at halfords, etc etc?

And finally, if i decide i want something 'proper' heavy duty like Tractol or POR15 does anyone know of any suppliers?

Thanks very much,

Liam

[Edited on 1/5/03 by Liam]

I would definatly get it blasted not only will it get rid off all the rust etc incuding all the fiddely bits but will also give a realy good key for whatever paint you use, there is a guy on elstow storage depot that is pretty cheap...i got a feeling he is called mid beds blasting or something like that..
Tractol..isnt that synthetic enamel, any paint shop should be able to supply it, i am sure MK paint and equiptment sell it. i have used smoothrite on my wishbones and had my chassis powder coated localy.

I think that must be the guy I spoke too. I said "Yeah ya know - like a westfield chassis" and he said "probably looking at about 120 quid". Probably very reasonable (and it's the only place I've found locally) and would save lots of hassle for me - but it's still pricey if you're my level of poor. Hmmm, dunno.

I found a local powder coating place but they didn't have a clue what i meant when i tried to describe the chassis. They said about 40 quid, which seems extremely cheap, but I think that may go up when they see it (considering MK engineering quote 176 quid to get it done). Unless you know of anywhere...

Liam

that blasting does sound a lot,
i think i paid £100 for my powder coating a one man band outfit on water eaton ind est over here in MK, i know a guy who does blasting i can have a word next time i see him if you like he is over papworth way.

i found hammerite chips too easy,i used red lead then house hold gloss on top,just cant find a bright enuf yellow

I've used Tractol and think it's pretty sh*t, but then maybe I didn't put it on very well, seems to hip very easily.

I'm gonna get some paint on liguid rubber stuff from B&Q (used for roofing) to do the underside of chassis and wings to protect it more.

Thanks for the thoughts...

Righty ho - say I either get it blasted or clean the rust of myself. Either way I think I will paint it instead of powder coating for cheapness and the ability to touch it up as need be.

So - is standard grey spray primer from somewhere like halfords decent or do I want something a bit more special like an etch primer or red oxide or something? What exactly is red oxide anyway?

Cheers,

Liam

Hi Liam
I was in a similar situation myself recently.
It was'nt so much the cost of blasting ,but more of a transportation one!
Anyway I used 'the tool' everyone talks of in my grinder over the whole chassis, then used a small wire brush to get into those harder to reach places.
Then cleaned it down with white spirt.
I painted it with hammerites 'rust beater' primer.
This primer can be used directly onto rusty metal as it actively kills rust.
Although I would'nt say that my chassis was rusty after the treatment described above, it does give peace of mind in case I missed a bit!
2 thick coats and voila!

[Edited on 1/5/03 by PaulBuz]

Liam says:
> So - is standard grey spray primer from somewhere like halfords decent or do I want something a bit more special ...

My unhelpful suggestion...
If you're just painting pipes ... wouldn't a brush be better?

- Greg H

I like conrod also used household gloss with a suitable household gloss metal primer.


The frame was totally rust free and was buillt with clean steel and remained indoors. Its a good idea to paint asap cos moisture can get to it from the air. thats why an easy touch up paint is useful as you add / tweak things.

The logic I used wasthe final car is only gonna do about 3k a year, and not in the wet by choice.

Once you panel the car you will be suprised how little of the chassis is left viewable anyway. The underneath is more important and there is always underseal for that if your gonna drive in all weathers.

The gloss finish is quite good, it costs only 10 quid, and once hard after a month or so you wouldnt know it from any other paint. Its also easy to touch up again if you add little welded extras on.

atb

steve



[Edited on 1/5/03 by stephen_gusterson]

I used zinc primer as i went. The added bonus that it kills rust, and can be welded through. very handy stuff. Problem though, brush painted some bits, tried to flat it down, and the stuff is hard as nails after a while. Good stuff, expensive at £15 a litre though, called zinc 182, would use it again.

being a ex painter supplier....

I would wire brush most of all the rust off. you can leave the discolored spots on the steel. next wipe it all down with some lacquer thinner then wax/grease remover. then use a small touch -up spray gun dialed down to a small pattern (3" range) to spray on som eself ectching primer (will cover real good). follow up with your prefered automotive paint in the same gun and setup (very little waste this way) let cure for a week or so to get a nice hard finish.

or

wire wheel it clean and wipe it down as above then paint with a 2 part epoxy paint ($$$$) just as hard as powder and can be done at home.

if I ever make a chassis I will go route 1.

nick

I've used that as well and for several different projects. You can thin it with cheap cellulose thinner and put a couple of coats on and it lasts a lot longer, and it doesn't leave brush marks that way. I used Joy enamel from B&Q for the top coat. Cheap and easy to touch up, not me the paint.

yours, Pete.

i got some REAL bright yellow for my chassis today,most of it is on the floor of b&q near the checkout but i saved enuf to do the chassis i think

I was going to say the same!!

re: blasting and coating - a complete blast and powder coat for my Luego+12+8+6 chassis cost £195.

There's a local guy who'll blast small bits for the price of a drink eg front hubs cost me a tenner. £100 just for the blasting sounds a little steep to me!

BTW nothing against your chassis (or painting skils ) Jasper but seeing the way the oil spillage effected the Tractol under your ECU I wouldn't use it myself.

Chris

quote:

---

Originally posted by kiwirex
Liam says:
> So - is standard grey spray primer from somewhere like halfords decent or do I want something a bit more special ...

My unhelpful suggestion...
If you're just painting pipes ... wouldn't a brush be better?

- Greg H

---

cant seem to find it anywhere!

Hi the best stuff is davids zinc primer which is gray and will take any type of top coat
I have used it on my chassis and then gave it a 2 coats of white primer as the finish colour of my locost is day glow yellow

Regards

Zinc 128 halfords sell it its a yellow and black tin avalable in 4 sizes

Simon

Ps If its good enough for Ferrari its good enough for me!!!!!

[Edited on 25/6/03 by simontiger]

Ive ordered my chassis from MK, Im planning on spraying the chassis, wishbones and uprights with hammerite from a spray can.

What prep work will i need to do for each of these. Im guessing the uprights and other donor components given a good cleaning.

How much will shot blasting be for the uprights and do they need to be primed before being sprayed.

[Edited on 25/6/03 by greggors84]

The only prepwork required before using hammerite is a frontal lobotomy.

The only results you will get is a nasty headache, weeks of regret as you painfully remove the useless deposits by hand

Agreed, do some searching on this forum for hammerite and you will find nothing but complaints. It doesn't set to a hard finish is the main gripe. Many people advocate Dulux weathershield as a good topcoat and it looks like zinc primer gets the vote here for an undercoat. My main tip would be to use thin layers so that it sets properly. This isn't a problem if spraying but can be if brushing. Etch primer is worth considering too.

Cheers,
Craig.

What about protecting one's chassis from rusting on the inside? you can try and weld plates over all the ends, but there are going to be all those rivet and bolt holes..

anyone know any tricks?

quote:

---

Originally posted by blueshift
What about protecting one's chassis from rusting on the inside? you can try and weld plates over all the ends, but there are going to be all those rivet and bolt holes..

anyone know any tricks?

---

would the type of expanding foam used for sealing gaps around pipework in houses work to seal the ends of the tubes to stop the insides rusting?

Well, yes probably initially, but why not just weld small plates over the ends and have done with it?

Kingr

I suppose if you're particularly paranoid, you could put waxoyl or dinitrol or whatever down them.

Kingr

quote:

---

Originally posted by andyps
would the type of expanding foam used for sealing gaps around pipework in houses work to seal the ends of the tubes to stop the insides rusting?

---

get a blow torch and heat the chassis, gets rid of any moisture, then weld plates on all the ends. use nice little rubber washers/sealant round all the rivets and it might be airtight enough not to let any moisture in? hence no rust!?!

is this the most stupid idea ever?

to summarise people are saying use zinc primer, lots of thin coats then dulux stuff for the top coat?

thanks,

Andrew.

Watch out with poly urethance foam. I think I'm right in saying that it gives off very nasty fumes when heated. It certainly gives off nasty fumes when you use it.

It might even be cyanide gas which would be very nasty indeed if you ever had to do some welding on a tube filled with foam...

I intend to seal the ends of my tubes but then drill a hole in the end for a waxoyl probe. Aftern waxoyling I'll then fill the hole with a grommet with some silicon applied first. I'm only going to do this on some of the main long tubes such as J1/2, F1/2, C, A1/2, B1/2, O etc. And any that have lots of rivet holes where moisture can get in. I don't think it's really necessary for tubes where you can get a good seal with the welds but where it's easy to do then I don't see the point in NOT doing it.

Cheers,
Craig.

Alfas used to use foam filled box sections in the 70's and it caused more rot than it cured. They were recalled to have it extracted as it was making them rust at an alarming rate, even for Italian cars. I don't think the oxidisation inside the tubes will be a problem as far as weakening the frame. Some people don't seem to be able to find enough to worry about.

yours, Pete.

hey, I just want to get it right. Though I suppose cars have been built for years with pop riveted mild steel tube chassis and not rusted from the inside? (someone tell me that's correct and I'll stop worrying)

but in the meantime.. what's this waxoyl thing?

It's a waxxy substance you put in hollow sections of chassis to try to stop it from rusting. Personally I'd just stop worrying about it, if you seal the ends of tubes and use adhesive of some kind when you rivet panels on, I can't see that you're going to get severe rusting any time soon.

Kingr

That means squirting glue into the middle of every pop rivet, which would be a pain and fiddly to get a decent finish. might end up with glue streaks.

I am a born worryer, I will sleep happier at night knowing my chassis is protected inside and out.

I wonder if I could get a bottle brush or some kind of thin paint roller on a stick and prod zinc primer down the tubes before using them.. hmm.. probably difficult to get a good coating.

perhaps copper plating in a bath, or something? not sure if you could weld through that.

I'm just thinking out loud really.

Has anybody had a chassis galvanised. Would be the ultimate way to stop rusting, just really difficult to weld if needed afterwards. There is also often a problem of warping due to the heat required - I remember reading about someone who had a Fiat 500 shell galvanised and he had to include masses of bracing to stop it twisting during the process.

I'm sure theres been a post about galvanising before. I'm not sure of the process involved, but if I remember the basics of the thread correctly then you'd have to make the chassis from 20mm walled tube because the whole thing has to be cleaned via an acidic bath which actually strips away a measurable amount of metal before it can be galvanised. I seem to remember somone mentioning that galvanising makes it weaker too??

Prob best you do a search for that thread cos I'm not renowned for stunning feats of memory powers (other than forgetting stuff!)

Pop rivets seal themselves when the stem pulls up and breaks. It leaves the ball inside so nothing will get in through there. When you make your panel and fit it you use Tiger seal or something similar to prevent vibration and drumming, that alone would hold your panel on, trust me I've tried to take them back off and it's not easy.

yours, Pete.

Can you get Zinc 183 or weathershield as a spray, i know this is unlikely but i dont want to brush it on as i dont want to leave brush marks and i dont have a spray gun.

Some one said you can thin it down. How many coats do you need to do after you have thinned it.


EDIT: Just seen on the U-POL website u can get zinc 182 in a can
it looks good stuff.


Thanks

[Edited on 26/6/03 by greggors84]

Hi, you can get pop rivets with a closed end ("sealed rivets".

closed end pop rivets eh.. interesting..

and in my experience with normal pop rivets, the ball doesn't seal, it rattles around inside its little distorted bit of tube, or sometimes falls out (to go pinging around inside your chassis for evermore)

Peteff:

quote:

---

Pop rivets seal themselves when the stem pulls up and breaks. It leaves the ball inside so nothing will get in through there.

---

Avdel rivets do indeed leave a small part of the mandrel protruding from the surface which , yes, we do often file down by hand but this is for a very good reason....
the type of blind rivet you describe is FAR stronger than any monel 'pop' rivet. If you showed a 'pop' rivet to an aircraft engineer he would laugh in your face!

Personally i am going for a compromise with my build (aircraft standards are not required on a car)

I will be using MBC (mono bolt concept) rivets. these are very similair to traditional avdel rivets however the mandrel breaks off flush with the rivet head so no filing is needed. (a special tool head is needed though to work these rivets). MBC rivets are also available in both aluminium alloy and steel for riveting different materials.
These rivets also provide a 'sealed system'.
(15 years as an Aircraft engineer!)

[Edited on 27/6/03 by protofj]

as ever the situation gets more complicated. now I find there are a squillion different kinds of rivets. argh.

protofj:

quote:

---

the type of blind rivet you (blueshift) describe is FAR stronger than any monel 'pop' rivet. If you showed a 'pop' rivet to an aircraft engineer he would laugh in your face!

---

quote:

---

...the sealed monel rivets are the best in this situation.

---

When I was reading earlier in the thread about preventing rust from the inside the words "fish oil" popped into my head, and a thought of pouring a little fish oil into your tubes and shaking it around to coat the inside.

Where this thought came from I've got no idea, but I've a vague feeling I've read it somewhere as a tip for just this, that it's supposed to work okay, but that it stinks to high heaven when you're using it (I guess it goes away once you've sealed your tubes or it's dried or something).

Now this might be the result of too much pizza before bed, or it might actually be something that I've read somewhere.

I'm not even sure what is meant by "fish oil"

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that idea in the mix.

- Greg H