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Formula 1 India now on!
PSpirine - 30/10/11 at 08:35 AM

EJ, EJ, EJ... oh dear

daniel mason - 30/10/11 at 08:51 AM

Circuit looks quite decent too!

welderman - 30/10/11 at 08:52 AM

EJ lol.

scootz - 30/10/11 at 08:58 AM

How good is the BBC coverage!

What a shame it's going to be halved next season...

PSpirine - 30/10/11 at 09:05 AM

The bit in Austin was amazing - loved the footage of DC driving round the dirt track

daniel mason - 30/10/11 at 09:19 AM

DC shoe company. Lol

fullpint - 30/10/11 at 09:25 AM

5 mins till the flag goes down. Time to make a cuppa and hope that we are in for a good race. Should be after all the shuffle around on the grid..

bob - 30/10/11 at 10:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz
How good is the BBC coverage!

What a shame it's going to be halved next season...



I was thinking the same myself, and you just know that SKY will not be able make the same quality coverage.

Wel unless they steal the the whole BBC production team and presenters

PSpirine - 30/10/11 at 10:11 AM

Lewis. Massa.

Popcorn out.


(the Bean reaction to that crash was priceless)

loggyboy - 30/10/11 at 10:20 AM

Penalty MASSA

Get in - about time Lewis got a break.

owelly - 30/10/11 at 11:24 AM

Ha ha. Massa got the penalty because the stewards noticed he'd looked over to Hamilton several times before he turned in on him!

theconrodkid - 30/10/11 at 01:17 PM

i watched the first few milliseconds and then got bored, so went to the garage,high light of the F1 calendar for me is...my lights left on buzzer is alive and working

craig1410 - 30/10/11 at 02:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by owelly
Ha ha. Massa got the penalty because the stewards noticed he'd looked over to Hamilton several times before he turned in on him!


Did you notice though that Hamilton braked earlier just before impact and noticeably dropped back a metre or two. I wonder if Massa read this change in his tiny mirrors as Hamilton yielding the corner and turned in. Look at it in slow motion and you will hopefully see what I mean.

After all:




scootz - 30/10/11 at 04:57 PM

LH's fault (again) for me. I have no idea what Massa was supposed to do...

Anyone can force an overtake down the inside if they make it clear they're prepared to use the outside car as a turn-in buffer!

mcg - 30/10/11 at 05:35 PM

Try the track on the F1 2011 game on the X box. Its a great track to drive on- clearly very well designed. Getting some laps in on the game pre race makes me appreciate the racing a bit more! I clearly have too much my hands! Should be spending more time getting my F27 tuned up!

craig1410 - 30/10/11 at 06:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by scootz
LH's fault (again) for me. I have no idea what Massa was supposed to do...

Anyone can force an overtake down the inside if they make it clear they're prepared to use the outside car as a turn-in buffer!


I agree, Massa had to turn in at that point otherwise he wouldn't have made the subsequent right hand corner and might have damaged his suspension on the kerb. Let's face it, he proved that the kerbs can destroy his car rather effectively.

I've got to say, if I was Massa, the last thing I would want to do is turn in on another driver as you are quite likely to flip your own car into the gravel which isn't nice...

I'd say 70% Hamilton, 30% Massa in terms of blame. Even DC and Brundle though it was a marginal fault against Hamilton but largely racing incident.

loggyboy - 30/10/11 at 06:21 PM

You have to imagine the curve is a straight. If Hamilton has his car a decent way along side (which he did) and Massa was aware of his presence (which he was), and you dont HAVE to take the racing line (which mass tried too), then you have to view it that Massa effectively moved in to the side of Hamilton. These cars will go round bends of different radi!

craig1410 - 30/10/11 at 06:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
You have to imagine the curve is a straight. If Hamilton has his car a decent way along side (which he did) and Massa was aware of his presence (which he was), and you dont HAVE to take the racing line (which mass tried too), then you have to view it that Massa effectively moved in to the side of Hamilton. These cars will go round bends of different radi!


I disagree, these guys are racing at the limits so for a given corner entry speed, there is only a small window in terms of racing line between a line which will work and one which will spit you out into the gravel either on that corner or the next one. Brundle and DC said that that part of the track was one car at a time and that Hamilton knows this better than he does. That was the lap before he crashed. Massa had already broken one car by going off line on one of those corners and shortly afterwards broke another car. There is no room for two cars to run through side by side at normal speed and the car in front shouldn't have to lift off as this is even more likely to end in tears.

JoelP - 30/10/11 at 06:45 PM

Just because they are in a corner at race speed doesnt mean they cannot change line, you often see drivers avoiding eachother mid corner, so its a bit deceptive to imply that he had no choice but to turn in. And equally, calling it a single file piece of track is nonsense; the track is many times wider than a car and they can drive it side by side, even if it means both going slower. Many times you will see cars going through awquard corners beside eachother, both giving enough space to not collide. What they really mean is that that piece of track doesnt present many opportunities to ovetake.

However, Lewis clearly did manage to get a fair way towards being alongside. It certainly wasnt a banzai move (ie diving in with no possibility of getting round the corner without the other driver having to avoid him). The fact that it wasnt a late move (ie sliding in with his brakes locked), and that lewis was well into the space (ie not just his front wing beside massa's back wheels) to me clearly puts lewis in the clear.

A penalty for Massa seems harsh, but imho he could have avoided that accident, and in light of the recent motorsport fatalities, the stewards were always going to take a dim view of avoidable accidents.

craig1410 - 30/10/11 at 06:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Just because they are in a corner at race speed doesnt mean they cannot change line, you often see drivers avoiding eachother mid corner, so its a bit deceptive to imply that he had no choice but to turn in. And equally, calling it a single file piece of track is nonsense; the track is many times wider than a car and they can drive it side by side, even if it means both going slower. Many times you will see cars going through awquard corners beside eachother, both giving enough space to not collide. What they really mean is that that piece of track doesnt present many opportunities to ovetake.

However, Lewis clearly did manage to get a fair way towards being alongside. It certainly wasnt a banzai move (ie diving in with no possibility of getting round the corner without the other driver having to avoid him). The fact that it wasnt a late move (ie sliding in with his brakes locked), and that lewis was well into the space (ie not just his front wing beside massa's back wheels) to me clearly puts lewis in the clear.

A penalty for Massa seems harsh, but imho he could have avoided that accident, and in light of the recent motorsport fatalities, the stewards were always going to take a dim view of avoidable accidents.


When driving through a high speed double left at full racing speed there is very little room for another car, especially with those orange kerbs. This is what Brundle and DC said and seems pretty obvious to me. Yes you can change line slightly but not much and there was certainly no room for Hamilton's car. The fact his front wheel hit Massa's back wheel shows how far away from being a clean overtake it was.


[Edited on 30/10/2011 by craig1410]

loggyboy - 30/10/11 at 08:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
This is what Brundle and DC said and seems pretty obvious to me.
[Edited on 30/10/2011 by craig1410]


I think their iterpretaion was clouded by their (and most peoples) instant assumption that Hamiltion would get blamed.
As they also said, stewards have lots more data to look at, so I would expect that if they had thought it was closer to 50.50 they would have said 'no further action...'

phelpsa - 30/10/11 at 08:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
Just because they are in a corner at race speed doesnt mean they cannot change line, you often see drivers avoiding eachother mid corner, so its a bit deceptive to imply that he had no choice but to turn in. And equally, calling it a single file piece of track is nonsense; the track is many times wider than a car and they can drive it side by side, even if it means both going slower. Many times you will see cars going through awquard corners beside eachother, both giving enough space to not collide. What they really mean is that that piece of track doesnt present many opportunities to ovetake.

However, Lewis clearly did manage to get a fair way towards being alongside. It certainly wasnt a banzai move (ie diving in with no possibility of getting round the corner without the other driver having to avoid him). The fact that it wasnt a late move (ie sliding in with his brakes locked), and that lewis was well into the space (ie not just his front wing beside massa's back wheels) to me clearly puts lewis in the clear.

A penalty for Massa seems harsh, but imho he could have avoided that accident, and in light of the recent motorsport fatalities, the stewards were always going to take a dim view of avoidable accidents.


When driving through a high speed double left at full racing speed there is very little room for another car, especially with those orange kerbs. This is what Brundle and DC said and seems pretty obvious to me. Yes you can change line slightly but not much and there was certainly no room for Hamilton's car. The fact his front wheel hit Massa's back wheel shows how far away from being a clean overtake it was.


[Edited on 30/10/2011 by craig1410]


Oh come on craig. It was quite apparent to you, I and everyone else with two eyes that Massa's intention was to close the door on Hamilton when there was room for him to go wide. That is, in my books anyway, intentionally causing an accident.

I've not been too impressed with some of Hamilton's actions this season (especially his moves on Maldonado!) but he certainly didnt deserve the blame for that one.

craig1410 - 30/10/11 at 09:01 PM

I disagree.

Massa looked, Hamilton backed off but not far enough and Massa's turn-in caught him.

It has happened too many times, usually with Massa but also with Maldonado, Kobayashi and Webber. Hamilton's head isn't where it should be. That is obvious and it is costing him dearly. Look at Webber, Alonso, Button and Vettel. They have close, wheel to wheel racing and yet manage to avoid collisions at incredible speeds with the finest of control. They trust each other and rightly so. Hamilton needs to get a grip before his career is all over and the first step is to get his father back as his manager and either stay away from women or find someone like Jenson's Jessica who actually makes him a more complete human rather than just being a silly distraction.

I think the stewards probably gave Massa the penalty because penalising Hamilton doesn't do any good and maybe by penalising Massa it might make him steer clear in future. I'm being a bit flippant here before you all flame me...

One thing we can agree on, this has to stop. Not funny any more.

scootz - 30/10/11 at 09:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
I think the stewards probably gave Massa the penalty because penalising Hamilton doesn't do any good and maybe by penalising Massa it might make him steer clear in future. I'm being a bit flippant here before you all flame me...


Doesn't sound all that daft to me. Lewis looks like he's ready to throw all his toys out of the pram at any moment and he's worth a lot more to Bernie as an F1 driver than not, so it's kid-gloves time!

RK - 30/10/11 at 10:54 PM

I agree with Craig. Hamilton is losing it. Get the old man back in his camp pronto and ditch the American broad. Don't they have girls in Switzerland?

daniel mason - 30/10/11 at 11:09 PM

He's not with his (ex) girlfriend anymore. so probably is feeling terrible like any human would.

RK - 30/10/11 at 11:24 PM

I'm having trouble shedding that tear...

Johneturbo - 30/10/11 at 11:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
You have to imagine the curve is a straight. If Hamilton has his car a decent way along side (which he did) and Massa was aware of his presence (which he was), and you dont HAVE to take the racing line (which mass tried too), then you have to view it that Massa effectively moved in to the side of Hamilton. These cars will go round bends of different radi!


I disagree, these guys are racing at the limits so for a given corner entry speed, there is only a small window in terms of racing line between a line which will work and one which will spit you out into the gravel either on that corner or the next one. Brundle and DC said that that part of the track was one car at a time and that Hamilton knows this better than he does. That was the lap before he crashed. Massa had already broken one car by going off line on one of those corners and shortly afterwards broke another car. There is no room for two cars to run through side by side at normal speed and the car in front shouldn't have to lift off as this is even more likely to end in tears.


I disgree, is that your experience from driving F1 2012 on the Xbox so how did Webber and Alonso get though Eau rouge together? Alonso altered his line mid corner. Sadly Massa would rather have an accident than concede a place to Hamilton

craig1410 - 30/10/11 at 11:31 PM

I'm sure he can do so much better than Ms Sherzinger (or however you spell it...)

Does anyone remember when Martin Brundle first spoke to her on the grid walk at a race a while back? She just giggled and talked nonsense the whole (thankfully short) time he was talking to her. Complete air head... Martin walked away with that raised-eyebrow look on his face which said it all. Then you see her (over)reacting to events on the track for the benefit of the camera which she knows is watching her. Amateur dramatics to say the least!

Then you see Jessica Michibata and how relaxed and happy she is and not bothered about the fact she's not wearing make-up or fancy clothes etc. Just there to have fun and support her man. A real soulmate and way way prettier and fitter than Nicole Sherzinger.

I think a lot of Hamilton's problems this year have been caused by seeing how comfortable Jenson is within the team. And he's been getting the results as well. He's got his Dad, his girlfriend and the clear support of the team. I wouldn't be surprised to see Hamilton disappear off to Red Bull to replace Webber in 2013. Might be a good move for him too.

craig1410 - 30/10/11 at 11:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
I disgree, is that your experience from driving F1 2012 on the Xbox so how did Webber and Alonso get though Eau rouge together? Alonso altered his line mid corner. Sadly Massa would rather have an accident than concede a place to Hamilton


Karting actually.

You make my point very well, thanks - Webber and Alonso are much classier drivers than either Hamilton or Massa. Hamilton's the crash-kid not Massa.

Johneturbo - 30/10/11 at 11:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
I disgree, is that your experience from driving F1 2012 on the Xbox so how did Webber and Alonso get though Eau rouge together? Alonso altered his line mid corner. Sadly Massa would rather have an accident than concede a place to Hamilton


Karting actually.

You make my point very well, thanks - Webber and Alonso are much classier drivers than either Hamilton or Massa. Hamilton's the crash-kid not Massa.


But your point was the cars can't alter the line mid corner, so now it depends on the driver, Lewis didn't need to alter his line though did he!

Oh so what happened after Karting? didn't you like racing togther through the corners on proper circuits


[Edited on 30/10/11 by Johneturbo]

craig1410 - 30/10/11 at 11:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
I disgree, is that your experience from driving F1 2012 on the Xbox so how did Webber and Alonso get though Eau rouge together? Alonso altered his line mid corner. Sadly Massa would rather have an accident than concede a place to Hamilton


Karting actually.

You make my point very well, thanks - Webber and Alonso are much classier drivers than either Hamilton or Massa. Hamilton's the crash-kid not Massa.


Oh so what happened after Karting? didn't you like racing togther through the corners on proper circuits


Family life happened...no complaints though. I'm still pretty handy in a kart...
I remember a guy I used to work with - he was a real boy racer and travelled the same piece of road to work as me. Sometimes we would have a little race together but I would always back off when it started to get dangerous. On that basis he thought he was the better driver. Then we raced karts one day and I lapped him twice in 32 laps. When I was younger I probably raced on the road with that same ferocity but as you get older you see how easily it can go wrong. On the track is a different matter though.

I've never driven an F1 car and probably never will but I like to think that a fast kart is pretty close in terms of the racing side of things albeit diluted down somewhat. I guess that's why most top F1 drivers came up through karting and still do it regularly.

[Edited on 30/10/2011 by craig1410]

Johneturbo - 30/10/11 at 11:48 PM

Yep i know what you mean, other things take over, that's why after 2 seasons of club racing, i just do the odd trackday now

skodaman - 31/10/11 at 01:49 AM

' Sadly Massa would rather have an accident than concede a place to Hamilton' True which is probably the real reason why they decided to punish Massa for a change. I called the family in to watch as soon as Hamilton got close to Massa cos contact was inevitable. Massa has problems accepting that Hamilton is faster than him therefore always tries to drive Lewis off the track. Mind you all this started with Lewis' particularly brainless attempt at an overtake at Monaco I think.

designer - 31/10/11 at 05:52 AM

quote:

Ms Sherzinger


She's famous over here now, no need for Lewis anymore, he should have seen it coming.

phelpsa - 31/10/11 at 07:53 AM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
I disgree, is that your experience from driving F1 2012 on the Xbox so how did Webber and Alonso get though Eau rouge together? Alonso altered his line mid corner. Sadly Massa would rather have an accident than concede a place to Hamilton


Karting actually.

You make my point very well, thanks - Webber and Alonso are much classier drivers than either Hamilton or Massa. Hamilton's the crash-kid not Massa.


I've been karting with some of the country's best (UK and European champions) in the BUKC and one thing is for sure, if a piece of track is 3 karts wide then they will put 3 karts on it and usually not touch!

Massa had the opportunity to avoid the accident, didnt and paid for it. Simples!

loggyboy - 31/10/11 at 08:39 AM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
You make my point very well, thanks - Webber and Alonso are much classier drivers than either Hamilton or Massa. Hamilton's the crash-kid not Massa.


Yeah, cuz Massa has been a stunning race driver over the last couple of years..... oh wait, no he hasnt, hes been shit. The accident in Hungary has knocked him for 6 and he isnt as good as he was in 2009. Hes lost his edge, which unless you the pole king (Vettel) you need otherwise loose places on track rather than gaining them. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Massa is not gaining anything at the mo because his hearts not in it anymore. (IMO)

quote:
Originally posted by designer
quote:

Ms Sherzinger


She's famous over here now, no need for Lewis anymore, he should have seen it coming.


I think he dumped her cuz she wanted kids and he didnt!

craig1410 - 1/11/11 at 08:23 AM

Some excellent analysis from Mark Hughes which looks spot on to me:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15524661.stm

David Jenkins - 1/11/11 at 08:32 AM

The Daily Mash website is spot-on as usual...

Daily Mash

Johneturbo - 1/11/11 at 09:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Some excellent analysis from Mark Hughes which looks spot on to me:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15524661.stm


Thankfuly the stewards agreee with an ex F1 driver, rather than a journo

craig1410 - 2/11/11 at 01:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Some excellent analysis from Mark Hughes which looks spot on to me:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15524661.stm


Thankfuly the stewards agreee with an ex F1 driver, rather than a journo


Not all of them...

http://planet-f1.com/news/3213/7284630/DC-Hamilton-Got-Off-Lightly

Johneturbo - 2/11/11 at 02:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Some excellent analysis from Mark Hughes which looks spot on to me:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15524661.stm


Thankfuly the stewards agreee with an ex F1 driver, rather than a journo


Not all of them...

http://planet-f1.com/news/3213/7284630/DC-Hamilton-Got-Off-Lightly



Like i said thankfuly they agree with an ex F1 driver and not a commentator!