if your talking about manufacturer built cars, If i went to a kit manufacturer and asked them to build me £40k's worth would it be better than a R500?
then you need to define better, but thats for another day
What are peoples thoughts on which 7 replica handles and is engineered the best.
Matty
Mk indy?
PMSL
sorry - i just had to
caterham - they just feel better cant put my finger on it but they are better.
[Edited on 16/1/2012 by ashg]
MNR!!!!!
Aerial atom, if for nothing else then watching Clarkson's face flap in the wind!
Adrian
Strikers are quite renound for being good handlers.
Procomp or caterham at a guess
I have been looking at mnr's, strikers, stuart taylors/aries and westfield.
Does anyone no the good and bad regarding the above.
Thanks Matty
surely this is more builder related than kit manufacturer related, as in I could buy a caterham and do a crap job of building it using the worst bits
i can lay my hands on - someone else might build a locost chassis from scratch and do an amazing job
if your talking about manufacturer built cars, If i went to a kit manufacturer and asked them to build me £40k's worth would it be better than a
R500?
then you need to define better, but thats for another day
Caterham, without a doubt.
caterham are still using dedion in all bar the CSR. hardly pushing the engineering boundaries there!
all depends what you are planning to use it for really. A good handling track car may not be best suited to the road and vice versa. Caterham have
obviously had huge investments are a substantially more expensive car than the likes of Mac 1 MNR MK etc this doesnt mean they cant be made to handle
as well.
Many now supplying adjustable wishbone to overcom the caster issues
The striker is one of the most nimble I have seen around a course of cones this doesn't go to say they handle the best around a track.
What's the best handling 7
A bit like saying what's the best football team (UK and/or Europe?)
What's the best super car?
What's the best digital SLR
There will always be argument and conjecture
There is a big "how much money" element
It's about set up
And how much skill do you have
Any of them can be made to handle well, all have their flaws. It depends as much about what YOU do with it as what kit you buy in the first place.
A wise man once said to me... if you follow the build manual correctly and fit the recommended components, then a Caterham will pretty much handle straight out of the box. This cannot be said for a number of other kit-makers.
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
caterham are still using dedion in all bar the CSR. hardly pushing the engineering boundaries there!
I'm slightly biased to the Striker 
- Very strong chassis, loads of triangulations.
- Nice, simple in-board suspension that loads the springs better because of the near vertical positioning
- Might be the smallest around, that plus it's design (standard aluminum panels all round, 7" diff, etc) makes it pretty light.
Plus Jeremy Philips has proven to know a thing or two about suspension design 
[Edited on 17/1/12 by rost]
Spyder Silverstone. Yes, I am biased but it was banned after its first three races for being too good. This was in the mid 80's so other manufacturers will no doubt have caught up.
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
caterham are still using dedion in all bar the CSR. hardly pushing the engineering boundaries there!
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
caterham are still using dedion in all bar the CSR. hardly pushing the engineering boundaries there!
Are you trolling with this statement?
quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
caterham are still using dedion in all bar the CSR. hardly pushing the engineering boundaries there!
Are you trolling with this statement?
Why do you go out of your way to question at least one person like this in almost every thread you contribute to?
I seem to remember you did the same to speedyxjs, which is why we don't see him as much.
MK have fully adjustable wishbones as well, so long as you can "cold set" them apparently.
[Edited on 17-1-12 by MakeEverything]
Talk to Procomp - they will soon tell youw hat works around the track and what doesn't!
From what I recall, he said Caterham are the very best, with Wetfield coming a little way behind.
He also praised the Striker, and the Stuart Taylor. There was slightly less praise for the MNR, and less again for the standard Indy - although as he
pointed out, you can set any of these cars up badly!
Excepting electronics, there's nothing mechanical done on a car today, that wasn't done before 1920. Even electric drive.
So, engineering 'boundaries' are constantly being rediscovered, not pushed to new limits.
Peugeot had twin overhead cam 4valves per cylinder in that era. The 'new' brake system/suspension system on the F1 Ferrari, is only an
adaptation of what was raced in the thirties.
The best handling are the cars I build. The car you built is the best to you. And unless Seb Vettel or Mark Webber or similar are doing the comparing,
who knows????
Cheers,
Nev.
Stick up a poll, that would be interesting but make sure the manufactures list is complete!.. I suspect this thread is not going to be helpful though
to much bias from owners
If a poll goes up, it will just tell you who has what car.
A previous post went up asking for a Poll reply to the Manufacturers in General and their Best features.
In that thread, I felt (and commented) that it would be easier to point out worst features as it may be more accurate and subjective...
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
caterham are still using dedion in all bar the CSR. hardly pushing the engineering boundaries there!
Are you trolling with this statement?
While not new tech, it doesn't mean it doesn't do the job nicely for a given situation. IC engines are old tech too don't forget - I don't see many 7's using ion drives.
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
While not new tech, it doesn't mean it doesn't do the job nicely for a given situation. IC engines are old tech too don't forget - I don't see many 7's using ion drives.
Maybe most people think/feel (i don't say this is true or not) that a dedion Caterham is still faster than an IRS from another manufacturer?
[Edited on 17/1/12 by DRCorsa]
quote:
Originally posted by eddie99
If a poll goes up, it will just tell you who has what car.
This is a very interesting read:
dedion or irs
For handling, I'd have a Caterham over any car mentioned above, but I can't because I'm huge.
But I don't need the best car, because I am a driving GOD
quote:
For handling, I'd have a Caterham over any car mentioned above, but I can't because I'm huge.
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
IRS is not star trek tho is it!?
If every 2 pence kitcar manufacturer can produce a half decent IRS set up, Why can the big name not do it, or at least not offer it on anything but the 40k top model. (unless SteveH has more info that he hinted on that they DO have more more widely avaiable IRS).
There is no denying, a well set up IRS WILL handle better than a well set up Dedion). It seems to me Caterham were sitting on their dominance and name for quite a few years, and until the CSR. I would assume they are not fitting to to the 'lower' models as it lowers the exclusivity of the CSR.
quote:
Originally posted by whitestu
quote:
For handling, I'd have a Caterham over any car mentioned above, but I can't because I'm huge.
+1
You don't have to be huge to be too big for a Caterham! My 9 year old would be OK but by the time he's 13 he'd have no chance! When I drove one I felt like I'd fall out!
In my view Caterhams do handle nicely and the front end is really well set up, but they can be very tail happy.
Stu
quote:
Originally posted by fesycresy
... I don't need the best car, because I am a driving GOD
quote:
IRS is not star trek tho is it!?
quote:
If every 2 pence kitcar manufacturer can produce a half decent IRS set up, Why can the big name not do it, or atleast not offer it on anything but the 40k top model. (unless SteveH has more info that he hinted on that they DO have more more widely avaiable IRS) There is no denying, a well set up IRS WILL handle better than a well set up Dedion). It seems to me Caterham were sitting on their dominance and name for quite a few years, and until the CSR. I would assume they are not fitting to to the 'lower' models as it lowers the exclusivity of the CSR.
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
IRS might work better mechanically but financially it costs more...
Tough question! Quality of engineering and good handling are not necessarily the same thing.
For example, the Fury is widely regarded to be a fine handling car when set-up well, but the design of the rear of the Sierra IRS chassis is not
fantastic in my opinion: the rear diff mount is not well triangulated and the lower wishbone brackets put the tubes onto which they're welded
under a lot of torsion.
These are a just a couple of design niggles off the top of my head, and its by no means a badly engineered car overall, but the engineering attention
to detail and quality on a Caterham seems to be quite a bit better – then again, the Fury will have been designed to be produced to a much lower cost
also, and the price of the kits reflects this.
If I could have afforded it, Caterham would have been my first choice (or a Procomp car if it was for racing use).
quote:
How so? A properly designed de-dion tube, ears and the various linkages must cost about the same to produce as a pair of wishbones, and uprights.
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
quote:
How so? A properly designed de-dion tube, ears and the various linkages must cost about the same to produce as a pair of wishbones, and uprights.
Well, I'm no expert in the field but I've read a few books from those that are and they have all suggested it's a more pricey route to take (not least from the design time needed to get it right). Done properly you are going to want proper bearings at every linkage point on an IRS (doubleA), to get the most of the benefits it can provide, and thats clearly a large part of the cost. That said, I wasn't just suggesting financial costs, but also looking at total masses etc "costs" in a general term.
Bloody spelling edits!
There's a company who sometimes post on here who make the odd car when they're not advising on future F1 design concepts and helping out
Adrian Newey when he's having a difficult day. I'd seek them out for advice(off season).
Or buy a caterham and have a great car out of the box.
Or buy a kit and spend a lot of time and cash getting it set up properly so it can hold a candle to the very best from caterham etc on the road.
quote:
Crikey... that's some spelling edit! It appears to have resulted in half of your post changing!
Stiffening an MK chassis?
Easiest way would be build new from scratch, using accurate jigs, then putting in the necessary tubes which MK seem to think are superfluous.
And the plastic rear bulkhead???? What genius came up with that great piece of structural design? At least you'd know pretty quick when the
poorly mounted fuel tank had cracked loose and caught fire.
Cheers,
Nev.
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Stiffening an MK chassis?
Easiest way would be build new from scratch, using accurate jigs, then putting in the necessary tubes which MK seem to think are superfluous.
And the plastic rear bulkhead???? What genius came up with that great piece of structural design? At least you'd know pretty quick when the poorly mounted fuel tank had cracked loose and caught fire.
Cheers,
Nev.
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
IRS might work better mechanically but financially it costs more...
How so?
A properly designed de-dion tube, ears and the various linkages must cost about the same to produce as a pair of wishbones, and uprights.
Ok, so Caterhams are best and a De-dion is about as good as IRS.
How do others compare?
Can anyone compare the Haynes Roadster with other locost cars?
I was once told that live-axle/de dion where almost as good as a well set-up IRS car but there where a lot of badly set-up IRS cars. The guy who said
this drove a lot of different customers kit cars and was always concerned when he had to drive a customers IRS car for the first time, just in case it
was badly setup....no such problems with De-Dion or live-axle.
[Edited on 18/1/12 by jeffw]
How i look at it: Dedion for smooth on track, IRS for road when there are imperfections, speed bumps etc.. Hence why my road car is IRS. Race car
Dedion.
Caterham do it for a reason.
well for the likes of anyone new considering buying a kit I would suggest going the likes of donnington and going out in all of them and see which one you feel most comfortable in. too many biased opinions to get reasonable answer, I own an MK indy took new top wishbones and a bit of time to get it right but I'm happy,
quote:
Originally posted by sebastiaan
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Stiffening an MK chassis?
Easiest way would be build new from scratch, using accurate jigs, then putting in the necessary tubes which MK seem to think are superfluous.
And the plastic rear bulkhead???? What genius came up with that great piece of structural design? At least you'd know pretty quick when the poorly mounted fuel tank had cracked loose and caught fire.
Cheers,
Nev.
posted on the wrong thread there, luv....
O, and thanks for the constructive comments.