I was all set on a Luego, but today i've looked into the MK Indy more, well actually I realised the price list was a downloadable pdf in the downloads section on the MK site . MK seems to be half the price than Luego for a tad more parts... it's got me thinking again...

Firstly, it's really not feasible for me to get around all (if any) of the manufacturers warehouses, so i'll most probably be purchasing upon this forums advice and my own research...

How does MK compare to Luego (and other kit manufacturers) in quality, etc?

Will it also be simple enough for me to get a soft-top hood and sides made up from a 3rd party?

MK are as good as they get in this area of the market...and not far behin7d the likes of Westfield. They were the first to venture into this "7" market supplying just chassis and basic fibreglass, but now supply almost anything you want. The good news is they have sorted the kit and there should be no problems.

There's a few MK builders near you to help out if need be...

To have a hood made up with sidescreens will be the best part of £500 if done by a pro...build the car first and see what life is like. Plenty of owners get hoods and never use them.

Quite honestly you are not going to geta fair and impartial opinion on here regarding what you should buy.
You may find out what you should NOT buy.
The problem is that people are loyal to what they themselves have bought.
This is particularly applicable to the MK boys as you will see from the first 2 posts.
The only information that will be 100% impartial will come from your own experiences, unfortunately.
The best advice I can give you is research the market yourself. Remember that most if not all kit manufacturers are a "cottage industry" and do not hold large, if any, stocks of component parts.
The kit you order will be made to order.
The first thing to do once you have chosen which genre of kit you are going to build is to decide on a realistic budget. This will to a large extent decide for you which route you are going to take.
Warning: Pay little attention to builders claims of spend unless they can back it up with comprehensive documentary evidence.
I could recount my route to deciding which kit I purchased but quite honestly it would not do you much good unless you had exactly the same criteria to meet as I did (which is very unlikely)
I must confess to getting somewhat angry with the people who react to questions such as yours by simply quoting the kit that they bought as the one you should buy. Or posting out of date adverts!
We can all do that.
The sad fact is that YOU have to weigh up what YOU want from a kit, research the market YOURSELF and find the one that closes matches YOUR criteria.
If you do not do this you will end up buying the car that someone else wanted!!!
Do not be swayed by hype and the product loyalty of others.
This hobby is about individuallity....Be individual....Don't follow the crowd....

What he said...

Also, go to a couple of big shows, sit in their demonstrator cars, talk to the people, and make a short-list. Then, if at all possible, go to their 'factories', check out their operation and blag a decent ride in a demonstrator.

9/10ths of a successful build is having a good relationship with the supplier, as far as I can see (mind you, I built mine from scratch, so what do I know! )

You're going to spend a fair bit of cash - you wouldn't buy a new car by mail-order, would you? You'd at least want to go and look at it.

David

if it helps, i've had a robin hood or two.

was going to build a luego as ther only 20 miles up the road

but bought a part built indy, just because i like them.

quote:

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Originally posted by EViS

Firstly, it's really not feasible for me to get around all (if any) of the manufacturers warehouses, so i'll most probably be purchasing upon this forums advice and my own research...

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As above - you will never get a balanced view on here. Ive only built one - thoroughly enjoyed the build. Support and service was superb, problem is ive got nothing to compare it to.

The question you should ask is what should i not buy and why - unfortunately this is a dodgy area these days as some answers could be slanderous!!! People could answer via U2U though so less public.

In an attempt to be balanced - all i can say is go to the shows, short list, visit manufacturers and go with the one that you feel most comfortable with - this is what i did and chose Mac#1. A lot of the woes that people encounter just didnt crop up in my build. Maybe its because iam so good (not!) or the components are so well sorted (maybe). MNR was a close 2nd. Mk were 3rd on my shortlist of 3.

I have an MK which now I have built I love it and it looks ace

Ive always loved the look of the MK more than the others thats why I bought the kit

There quality of fibreglass work is not the best IMHO and the fitment of the panels is pretty shite youd think after having sold so many cars they would have perfected the panels...

I could create a long list of other problems Ive had along the way which through a bit of common sense they could get so right...

but Im also very happy with a lot of things


so Im sitting on the fence with this one

you deff need to go and view all the kits even if you book into a B&B

theres a nice B&B outside MK sportscars


chris

Which Kit?

Kits are for girls, smelt your own ore and buy uncle rons book

Seriously, while i whole heartedly agree with the previous comments, especially BKLOCO's, you perhaps wont realise exactly what you need or are looking for in a kit until you've done your first one.
I dont think you can go far wrong with any of the kit makers that are mentioned on this forum. Although i would follow CalvinX's example and make sure your timescales and expectations can be met by your chosen supplier.

While i am a scratch builder i would probably do it again, but next time but i would do it exactly how i wanted to, simply because i now have the experience of knowing what should go where etc and what carnt go there.

I'm completely aware that owners are generally biased, which is why i always read between the lines . However, what I guess i'm trying to ask is whether MK really is that much cheaper than Luego in terms of achieving a road legal, SVA approved car? Or am I just missing something and the difference in pricing between the two is pretty minimal...

However as an example, a full exhaust set (incl. manifold, etc) from MK is £300, whilst Mac#1 charge and Luego charge around the £600 bracket... again, is there a significant quality issue with the MK supplied exhaust...

My budget is set at no more than £4k (preferably incl. of registration and SVA fees). I'll also have 2 months free to work on the project non-stop.

[Edited on 10/4/06 by EViS]

I've got a MAC#1 and I am biased, so I'll not offer any advice on kit selection, but, no more than £4k, all in ?

Don't think you'll do any of the above mentioned manufacturers for that (Snoopy, didn't the magazine powered pinto cost £5k ?), or you could build a book locost for £250

if your budget is that much I would seriously consider saving more or
use absolutely everything from your donor including the engine etc

get cheap second hand alloys

because otherwise believe me all the little things add up loads more

chris

i started with 4K budget. Quickly realised it was insufficient for any kit and just built what i wanted in the end. I found i culd do some trades to keep cost controlled and spread the cost to make it affordable.

Yup i am planning on using abolutely everything other than seats and dials (which with a bit of luck i'll try source cheaper somewhere). Having done a search over the MK Indy section of the forum, there were people quoting figures of complete builds finished for £3k . Obviously they weren't the nicest looking MK's but it shows that it is possible...

believe me when i say its not possible

theres to many little things that are £50 a go

that you need that arent in the kit

fuel tank £50-100
seats £50-200 at least
brake calipers or at least recon kits £50
discs+pads£40-??
loads of nuts and bolts£
rear lights£50-180
headlights £70-100
fuel cap filler restrictor and pipe at least £70
bonnet catches £30-40
dash £30-100
indicators£20
bits modifying £50
exhaust £300
harnesses are at least £70
wheels £100 at least
rubber strips u strip etc etc £50 at least
mirrors mirror £40

I could probably think of another load of stuff but hope that helps

chris

Well taking into account all the above, and giving rather generous prices for each, the total has come to £1380. Add the £2500 for the MK kit, the total comes out as 3880, leaving some leeway for additions such as tools, rivets and nuts/bolts and a donor... Yes it most definitely is a squeeze... escpecially if i also want to get a soft top made up...

So those who say they have built their kits for £3500 are lying ...?

[Edited on 10/4/06 by EViS]

sva 150 quid
dvla 50 quid

and all the things Ive forgot which will ad another good 500 pounds onto it

what Im saying is that dont be held back
but ie you have 4k in the bank buy the kit
fetch the kit how are you going ot fetch it theres another £100

youll have 4k and youll spend most of it before youve even had time to think so tread carefully

youll also come across all the things that dont work on the original car or break after a week engine wise as it will be old
££££££

mine has cost 9k but its a bec and everything apart from the engine and drive stuff is new which is obviously totally different than trying to do it on a budget.

just remember what I say about the things youll come across

" the phrase shite I forgot about that theres another 30 quid 20 quid etc
etc

MAC#1 THE ONLY ONE!

quote:

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Originally posted by mac1ZR
MAC#1 THE ONLY ONE!

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I helped build an Indy 4 years ago and last year I gave a friend a hand with his MAC1#. I couldn't actually tell the difference between them.

they are the same car

I would be very supprised if you are able to build a kit to a reasonable standard for the sort of money you are talking.
There are absolutely loads of bits and pieces that you don't think of at the time of ordering even the fluids can add up to close to £100 then you have things like: Battery. No plates. Hoses. G.box mount. Fuel filter. Air filters. As well as all of this, and believe me ther is loads more you will need that hasn't yet been mentioned. You will probably need to buy some of the more specialist tools or at least hire them.
Do you have an engine hoist? brake pipe flaring tool? etc. etc.
I believe that a much more realistic budget for ANY kit starts at around the £6000 mark and trust me it's easy to spend much more.
The last thing I want to do is put anyone off building but I think you need to be realistic and know the possible total cost before you start, then hopefully we won't see yet another half finished dissapointment on the good old fleebay!

BKLOCO, your spot on in thinking that the last thing i want is to have to cut my losses and sell an unfinished project on fleabay... Furthermore, £4k is a rather large amount of money for a student like myself...

I'll still pop down to Stoneleigh at the end of this month and have words with some of the manufacturers and get their opinions on my budget. It's been very mixed here... The Locost Related (General Chat) part of the forum agrees that my budget is far too low, whilst the Car Specific parts of the forum reckon that my budget is ideal... hmm...

So hard to get a straight answer .

Ask for advice on this forum and you'll get at least 10 different answers!

...and probably an argument will be the result...



A practical answer is - the more time you are prepared to put into the project, the cheaper it will be. This includes scrapheap scrounging, finding things that will do the job rather than those with a high bling factor (esp. wheels), and all sorts of things like that. Also being prepared to accept less-than-bling until after SVA.

Contrary to what you said earlier, I have seen some very respectable cars that have been built for less than £3000. Most of them used 2nd-hand wheels, simple engines will little or no tuning, home-made seats, and so on. Many of them looked really high-class.

Setting modest objectives is a very good way to keep the cost down. Trouble is, when you start building you start to think "it would look nicer if I just added..." and then the budget spirals out of control!

David

This is precisely my point and why I love this forum, 101 different opinions haha. Any idea whether those £3k budgeted cars were kits or self made (chassis, Al bodywork, etc)? If kits, any idea which manufacturer?

A mixture of kits and self-builds. The main differences were the number of things they used off their donors, such as steel wheels instead of alloys (you can usually get basic steel wheels for free! Narrower than bought-in wheels, so the tyres were cheap), donor switches, instruments, steering wheel, stuff like that. Ordinary rubber brake flexible hoses, instead of braided teflon ones. All that sort of thing.

Just one thing: donor parts are starting to get more expensive now as the old cars get scarce, so those budgets may need revision.

if you build a kit my answer is a straight answer I dont believe 3k at all but with loads of searching for parts swapping bits or whatever 4k is possible Or there abouts. Simple!

Fair comment...

I won't even bother listing manufacturers as that's all been covered. The only thing i would mention is that luego also do a locost and they didn't mention a special show price for that in the luego thread - worth finding out. Haggle a lot and get as much as you can at the show for around £2500 would be my suggestion.

then use as much as is humanly possible from the donor - even things like hoses, jubilee clips, fuel and brake fittings as they all add up (I've spent hundreds with thinkauto).

I found that a lot of things i 'thought' i needed i really didn't and i would do things differently which would turn out cheaper in the future.

Another very good bit of advice (imho) don't buy something because you are on a budget and it is at a good price (ie cheap) - ALWAYS check it will fit and is actually the part you want. Often making things you've bought cheap fit can turn out more expensive than buying the right bit in the first place.

Also try and make purchases at the same time form the same place thus saving on delivery - the no of times I've put orders in then a few days later had to order again and pay double on postage because I'd forgotten something. Also bear in mind delivery costs when looking for bits cheaper. You may buy things from 3 different supplier because they were the cheapest, when actually buying from one supplier and paying a couple of quid more might save you £10-20+ in seperate delivery charges.

I don't think £4k is impossible but you'll have to be very very careful with your penny's if using a kit.

I would personally suspect the majority of cheaper builds on here are scratch built locosts - not saying that you can't do it from a kit - just buy your donor wisely and use as much of it as you can.

good luck!

Ned.

[Edited on 10/4/06 by ned]

Scratch-builds are only cheap if you've already got the tools to build them with, like the MIG welder. If you've got to buy a welder, pay gas bottle rental for all the time you're learning, wasting gas and wire, and all that stuff, you might just as well have gone out and bought a kit!

Doing stuff over and over 'cos you messed up the first few efforts adds to the cost as well.

David

Right, so it may also be worth my while spending a bit more on a donor and possibly having a higher guarantee that more of it's parts can be used...

yes, but on the flip side its a balance of paying too much for a good donor where you could go and buy parts seperately with the difference if you got a cheaper donor and didn't use as much!!

Come to Stoneleigh, there'll be loads there, Locosts, MKs, Mac#1s, MNRs - you name it!
Most of us will talk money (as long as the wife's not listening )
I'm not bothered about pristine cars, they're for driving. Our 2 cost 3k between them on the road. (Locosts though - so scrounged everything).

Marcus

don't forget oils. brake fluid, g-box oil, deciding to replace that leaky seal on the gear box, then needing a new gasket set for it as well. reusing as much as you can from the doner is cheaper but may not be as time efficient, will you be stripping it down before the 3mth build?
I bought a cordless drill to make the build easier less trip hazards etc, then lots of drill bits build cost depends on what you include in the build.

get to a show for sure, speak to owners in the field, you'll get a feel for after sales.
chas

I'm still aiming for a 5k build total on my mk indy r1, ok yes I got a part built kit on ebay for a grand.
But i'm trying to be as canny as possible on sourcing the other parts myself as cheaply as possible. like others have said, it's the odds and ends that look like they are gonna add up, but if you can manage to wangle some major components cheap through friends atc you can slash a good chunk off the budget.
I was figuring to pay around the 1k mark for an r1 engine with loom ecu clocks etc, few hours and a few beers later down my local and i've found a likely suspect for 400 inc all the bits I want.
If you can afford to put the time in searching and haggling you can pick up some fantastic bargains on the more expensive bits and bobs.
When push comes to shove most dealers will haggle, it's just our british mentality seems to stop us form trying of late.
Ben

ben hear the engine running beforehand
its a big must I think

otherwise you might have probs further down the line

chris

The best bet is to visit factories to see what's being done in the way of builds etc. Most make chassis in house and sub out the smelly/messy bit some do it the other way round.

A show is always a good eye opener especially as there will be customer built cars outside, try to speak to those folk that have built them then go and see the firm........make up your own mind after you have seen how enthusiastic the relevant firms have been with your questions.

One firm will shine for it's nuttyness.

4K is a realistic total budget.

Mine will have set me back between £5500 and £6000 when I come to book the SVA, that's with 200hp, vauxhall XE engine, throttle body injected, MBE engine management, IRS, narrow width, lightweight custom shafts, caterham sump, raceleda 4 pots on the front, discs all round, stuart taylor IRS chassis, stuart taylor bodywork, blah de blah etc etc, i.e. not a budget build.

ps £600 is ballpark right for a good exhaust manifold. Two of the best manifold manufacturers in the country will typically quote you £700 ish for a 4-2-1 manifold for a 4 cylinder 7 type car.

I'm making my own which will cost me around £300 to make (allowing £100 worth of beer for my mate who will prob spend around 15 hrs welding on it) but to the same std as the £700 ones from those manufacturers, the difference is the labour!!! VERY time consuming to do well