A good few years ago there were at least two kit cars that had a combined wing/front end design
The Dutton Phaeton (Mk2)

and the Sylva Star


I personally like these (I even built a Dutton (though that was mainly because it was cheap)) and can see no reason why the idea and style isn't still perfectly valid.

All opinions welcomed

John

im with mr w on this one

Any particular reasons?

One small knock could end up a big ££ repair on one piece back and one piece front fibreglass kits, at least cycle wings and nosecones are easilly replaced/fixed.

Ford along with other major manufactureers do quite a good job of blending the wings and front....
Or do you want a lotus 7?

[Edited on 9/7/08 by ReMan]
Rescued attachment fiesta_2col.jpg

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Originally posted by ReMan
Ford along with other major manufactureers do quite a good job of blending the wings and front....
Or do you want a lotus 7?

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I've often thought about that type of front - would keep cr@p off the front suspension and make it a tiny bit more aerodynamic. My personal preference would be a "normal" type of nose cone shape (i.e. not square like the Dutton) with the enclosed wheel arches. To get over the possible expense/hassle if a wing gets knocked, there is no reason why the wings couldn't bolt on like rear ones. Also, you could still make a separate bonnet with a bit of thought on fixings at the front, or have a separate bonnet bolted to the nose so the whole lot hinges for access.

I like the integrated nose/bonnet look (F27 and early Striker mkII, but not so much the integrated wings.
Purely a style thing for me so do whatever makes you happy.
The cost of having a bang and having to replace the lot is a valid one unless you have separate cycle wings that bolt onto the bonnet moulding.

I've gotta be honest i think those two are pretty ugly and think the more enclosed shapes with the wings blended in more work better for me rather than the rear wings being very se7en-esque

Something along the lines of the RAW Fulcrum

getting away from the 7 style then, i remember seing a kit at stoneleigh a few years back (Dodge Viper style) that has seperate bonnet but single piece front wings valance and slam plate.
The card did look good with smooth lines, but i am sure i have seen the model since with seperate wings so there must be a reason for the change and i can only think manufacturing costs comes into play.

I'm actually with Mr Henderson on this one (a bit - I'll need a bit of convincing on the Dutton front!) I think this actually a pretty good looking car


[img][/img]

especially if you compare it to a Vindicator or even an old style Robin Hood....... or maybe Its just me

We've discussed the aesthetics, but there hasn't been too much talk about weight, aerodynamics etc.

In case anyone was wondering, I wasn't proposing that either of the designs should be copied, just the underlying principles

John

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Originally posted by bob
getting away from the 7 style then, i remember seing a kit at stoneleigh a few years back (Dodge Viper style) that has seperate bonnet but single piece front wings valance and slam plate.
The card did look good with smooth lines, but i am sure i have seen the model since with seperate wings so there must be a reason for the change and i can only think manufacturing costs comes into play.

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I have recently become interested in the aerodyamics side of things. However, I think the Fury design already does the enclosed kit car thing rather well. The LMP look also interests me. Spire/Radical etc.

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Originally posted by indykid

quote:

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Originally posted by bob
getting away from the 7 style then, i remember seing a kit at stoneleigh a few years back (Dodge Viper style) that has seperate bonnet but single piece front wings valance and slam plate.
The card did look good with smooth lines, but i am sure i have seen the model since with seperate wings so there must be a reason for the change and i can only think manufacturing costs comes into play.

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i seem to remember reading in a kit car magazine, can't remember which one, that it was originally a one piece moulding but it made it look like a cheap copy of a viper.... which obviously it is. the shut lines from the seperate panels were put back in to make it look more authentic, no doubt increasing cost from having more flanges and seperate moulds.

tom

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What about this one?


[img][/img]

aerodynamics , use of a std radiator , intercooler .

SVA , No nut and bolt covers .

Can use a better chassis for layout and hanging things off , the fisher fury as an example .

things against it , uniqueness , in that you cant just buy a nosecone to fit a 'book ' chassis .

i personally prefer the full bodied type .

and have in fact bought some dutton bodywork to pursue this avenue so that more std parts can be used, and design a better more practical chassis .

As far as the aerodynamics are concerned, I think everybody agrees that enclosed wheels are better.

In effect, then this means that the issue as fas as LSIS are concerned is whether the open are between the front and rear arches, such as we see on the Dutton and Sylva designs, is better or worse than continuing the bodywork as would be done on an LMP, or in the picture above provided by MikeCapon?

I should imagine, though I don't know, that the continued bodywork would be better, but it would definitely be heavier and make access more difficult.

Perhaps the combined wings/front end should be seen as a compromise aerodymanic solution

John

quote:

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Originally posted by mr henderson
As far as the aerodynamics are concerned, I think everybody agrees that enclosed wheels are better.

In effect, then this means that the issue as fas as LSIS are concerned is whether the open area between the front and rear arches, such as we see on the Dutton and Sylva designs, is better or worse than continuing the bodywork as would be done on an LMP, or in the picture above provided by MikeCapon?

I should imagine, though I don't know, that the continued bodywork would be better, but it would definitely be heavier and make access more difficult.

Perhaps the combined wings/front end should be seen as a compromise aerodymanic solution

John

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How about something like donkervoort have done?





Its not the prettiest car but the concept could be a good starting point

There are not many times one can use this word, but this one seems to fit: "GHASTLY"

However, it is a starting point, as said.

another

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Originally posted by RK
There are not many times one can use this word, but this one seems to fit: "GHASTLY"

However, it is a starting point, as said.

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Sorry, I was referring to the Donkeyvoort. It may be practical, as long as you can get in, but it looks, as we may say here in Canada, "like sh*t". The NZ car looks amazing. He should sell those front ends. I'd buy one as long as he can get them to NA within a reasonable amount.