I'm sure some of you regular emailers will have seen this already in some form or other but I thought I'd pass this on for the masses. It's probably made up cos I've seen it in two forms both Ozzie and Canadian.... but somehow it's scarerilly believable......

As follows:-

This is a transcript of an actual radio conversation between a US naval ship with the Australian authorities off Cape York in the Coral Sea October 1995. Radio conversation released by the chief of naval operations, 10-10-95.

AUSTRALIANS: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.

AMERICANS: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

AUSTRALIANS: Negative. You will have to divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.

AMERICANS: This is the captain of a US Navy Capital Ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.

AUSTRALIANS: No, I say again, you divert YOUR course.

AMERICANS: THIS IS THE UNITED SATES AIRCRAFT CARRIER NIMITZ, the second largest ship in the United States Pacific Fleet. We are accompanied by three Destroyers, three Cruisers and numerous other support vessels. I DEMAND that you change your course 15 degrees South. I say again, that's one-five degrees South, or counter-measures will be undertaken to ensure the safety of this ship.

AUSTRALIANS: This is a lighthouse......Your call Captain..




[Edited on 15/3/04 by jonti]

rotf... funny one that!

The way I heard it was with the Italian navy at Cyprus

Whilst in the Navy, I was part of a NATO excercise in the Med. 13 ships doing a proceedure to mask the fleets intended couse from radar. What you do is basically to zig zag at various headings with the net result being your intended course. On one course change 12 ships made a 40 degree course change to port, and the USS Spattenburg County veered off to starboard, unfortunately, she was on the middle of the fleet. The chaos that resulted was unbelievable, several near collisions, emergency turns, cooks getting burned in the galley.............



Another excercise, about 20 ships doing a simulated attack on Gibraltar, in the middle, the Americans called a 'safeguard' (basically this is when something happens for real, and you know that the message is not part of the excercise i.e. Fire in the galley - wander down and pretend to put out a fire, SAFEGUARD Fire in the galley - Its really on fire!!!). The message was 'Safeguard temporary halt to excercise', a few seconds later, a helo left one of the US ships with a Coke machine slung from under, and took it to another. A little later Safeguard - Resume

dont know if youll all have fast enough connections to download this but it just shows the americans attitude to war, throw as much money (ie weaponry) against an enemy. 3 iraqi troopers on the ground on foot vs. apache. Guess who wins.......

Like when my dad was fighting in Burma he said when the brits where bombarding the japs they'd pull back 1 mile,when the Yanks where bombarding they'd pull back 5 miles ands they still dropped shells/bombs on us.
Tried to contact you over the w/e Jonti see if you were going Stafford just got your voicemail.
Cheers,
Bob

quote:

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Originally posted by pbura
The way I heard it was with the Italian navy at Cyprus

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There's a famous bit of film from WW II, of the yanks trying to bomb the monastery on Monte Casino in Italy.
One bomber missed the whole mountain, and nearly trashed the British HQ in the town of Casino itself, a few miles away...

David

P.S. In fairness to the US airforce, the RAF worked out the percentage of effective bombs in proportion to the total dropped (in other words, hit the intended target). I believe that it was something like 1 or 2 percent...

Sorry here is the apache video:::

very amusing

http://members.lycos.co.uk/findlay234/hpbimg/apache_helicopter_vs_iraqis.mpeg

Damn, doesnt work, one moment guys ill have it online in a minute.....

[Edited on 15/3/04 by Findlay234]

a few observations though

the iraqi's were unarmed, they were NOT hostile, the one on the left looked like he was trying to surrender.

but no, they were cut down anyway

Yes I agree with your observations, and that's what makes me doubt the authenticity of the clip......I'm not saying something like this couldn't happen, just doubt the clip would get out...

IMO

hmmm, i'm not so sure.

they did manage to release a clip of a friendly fire incedent too,

and you have to remember there's a huge amount of leaked footage aswell..

Steady boys I never intended this to be a Yank Bashing session merely a light hearted dig at our cousins over the water

Shit happens in war. I personally, and suspect most of you, don't know how we'd behave in a combat situation, at night when we're being shot at and perhaps our mate's had been blown to bits the day before.

I wouldn't like to do it and think anyone who does should be cut loads of slack.

Gets off soapbox.

Jonti....good points and I agree.....

Living out here in the US and having many American friends and colleagues I find that the loud, brash and gung-ho stereotype is very untypical, certainly of the people I know......in fact I'm probably louder and more obnoxious than all of the people I know...

Did I just say that out loud?...

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan B
in fact I'm probably louder and more obnoxious than all of the people I know...

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Afraid the apache video ... isn't.....

That is not to say that the real thing doesn't exist

Let's just say that I 'understand' the original is far worse

err.. alegedly err... can't really say any more... err

quote:

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Originally posted by timf

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan B
in fact I'm probably louder and more obnoxious than all of the people I know...

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sober or drunk is that Alan

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firstly how can you fake that video?

second, talking about casualties of war i read a statistic a while ago that during the 2nd world war the britsh bombers had a certain accuracy ratio (cant remember exaclty) but a hit was classed as within 3km radius around target. even with this large area the figure wasnt amazing

quote:

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Originally posted by Findlay234
firstly how can you fake that video?.......

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but it'd be one *hell* of a job

Agreed....and that's what makes it so good....and realistic..... no doubt.

They didn't look too bothered about getting away, I think I would have been legging it in the opposite direction, pronto.

the two guys do hide behind the vehicles, on on side the guy crouches behind a tractor or something like it and on the other side a truck, the thing is in the middle of the night and all of a sudden your mate blows up you wont know where the enemy are coming from, let alone realise its from the heavens.

Fake or not...Like I said......In war Shit Happens and I would have thought you don't have much time to think about right and wrong.........just your own neck. Think i'da shot the buggers !!

[Edited on 15/3/04 by jonti]

It was definately NOT filmed from a helicopter for a start.... I am 100% certain of that....

yeah, firstly it's too still, and there's not enough helicopter noise.

quote:

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Originally posted by protofj
It was definately NOT filmed from a helicopter for a start.... I am 100% certain of that....

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quote:

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Originally posted by jonti

quote:

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Originally posted by pbura
The way I heard it was with the Italian navy at Cyprus

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I think its probably one of those "adapt to fit" stories actually.....That's why we tell "Irish Jokes", you tel "Polish Jokes" and the Irish tell "Kerryman Jokes".

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That 1% must have all fallen on Dresden.....read up on that if you havnt - a 2 day 1000 bomber raid by the UK and USA killed more people than both the atomic bombs.....

atb dont seem appropriate here.......

steve

quote:

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Originally posted by David Jenkins
There's a famous bit of film from WW II, of the yanks trying to bomb the monastery on Monte Casino in Italy.
One bomber missed the whole mountain, and nearly trashed the British HQ in the town of Casino itself, a few miles away...

David

P.S. In fairness to the US airforce, the RAF worked out the percentage of effective bombs in proportion to the total dropped (in other words, hit the intended target). I believe that it was something like 1 or 2 percent...

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Thats the least amusing thing I have seen for some time

quote:

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Originally posted by Findlay234
Sorry here is the apache video:::

very amusing

http://members.lycos.co.uk/findlay234/hpbimg/apache_helicopter_vs_iraqis.mpeg

Damn, doesnt work, one moment guys ill have it online in a minute.....

[Edited on 15/3/04 by Findlay234]

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i would be worried if i thought even soldiers were quite so casual about killing people.

regarding the 'you dont know what those guys had been thro before they shot em' is a valid point.

A while back there was summat on the BBC site about the Mai Lai massacre in vietnam.


A platoon if american soldiers went nuts in a vietnamese village, killing and raping what was basically a village of old men kids and women. A significant incident was when a baby was shot dead as it crawled out of a ditch where its dead mother lay.

When the head of the platoon was sentanced, he got a few years in prison and at the time this was deemed harsh. In fact he was released after 2 or so years.

This on the face of it, seems like a massive injustice that few people were bought to book for this crime.

Here is the other side.


The platoon had been attacked for a considerable time - often by civillians. One technique was the human wave. The locals hated the yanks so much they did a leming thing, where you had 100 people and 10 guns. The ones at the front, when cut down, had their weapons taken by those that followed. By the time the wave reached USA positions, the ones with the gun at that time did the shooting. The guy that killed the baby had recently killed a 10 year old boy that was about to blow him away. It prayed on his mind but he had to do it. 10 years on the baby would have had a gun.

A while before the incident, one of their number had been captured by the viet cong. They had listened to him die all night. The prisoner had his skin cut from his whole body, and had salt water poured on him.

There was a whole catalog of things prior to the guys entering the village. When they got there, there was no viet cong, so they just took it out on the populace.

No excuse, but the points made were just a couple of what the troops had endured prior to the event.

You could also call it a gross lack of discipline and professionality to kill and rape women and kids.

two sides to every story.


steve

quote:

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Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Thats the least amusing thing I have seen for some time


Agreed.......Fake it may be......funny it most definately aint.

But Ida still shot 'em

And I endorse all Mr Gusto's points made above..(kinell Steve that's twice this year I've agreed with you !!)





[Edited on 15/3/04 by jonti]

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stephen_gusterson - 15/3/04 at 08:41 PM

actually Jonti, I could get to like you after a few pints Its getting less pints all the time

atb

steve

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jonti - 15/3/04 at 08:44 PM

Steady lad...I'm a married man

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petescamel - 15/3/04 at 08:49 PM

no one really should find things like the clip amusing

just think on the flip side someone may find the thought of 911 or the recent train bombings in spain amusing as well.

any time inocent people are killed in such a way should make you think that the people in question could have been you brother / sister etc

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stephen_gusterson - 15/3/04 at 09:39 PM

quote:

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Originally posted by jonti
Steady lad...I'm a married man

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dont worry, im not a big drinker!



atb

steve

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The Shootist - 15/3/04 at 09:50 PM

But if you can find the full version of this video, the hostiles were setting up a mortar emplacement to ambush convoys on a nearby highway.

A 30mm auto-cannon is the smallest weapon available to an Apache crew, and if you'll note the delay between the time that the crosshairs hover over a target, and the time that the shells hit, the shots are fired from about 2 miles out.

The activity around the mortar is not seen on this footage because the chopper crew fired a salvo that missed due to the auto-ranging system being turned-off. The hostiles were busy seeking cover by the time this footage starts.

The group was taken out after one member was seen with an object thought to be a shoulder fire rocket. It is well known in the region that anyone with a weapon will be considered hostile.

[Edited on 15/3/04 by The Shootist]

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Staple balls - 16/3/04 at 12:26 AM

nice to hear the full story

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jonti - 16/3/04 at 09:05 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by stephen_gusterson

dont worry, im not a big drinker!



atb

_________________________________

Me neither mate...I spill most of it

Cheers

steve

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DaveFJ - 16/3/04 at 09:09 AM

still wasn't filmed by an apache - or any other helicopter for that matter (unless it was parked on the ground !)

[Edited on 16/3/04 by protofj]

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David Jenkins - 16/3/04 at 09:09 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
actually Jonti, I could get to like you after a few pints Its getting less pints all the time

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Reminds me of that classic quote from "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme" on the box...

her: "So what's the difference between a straight man and a gay one?"
him "about 6 pints of lager, in my experience!"

rgds,

David

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jonti - 16/3/04 at 11:01 AM

Yeah and......Ive neve gone to bed with an ugly woman......mind you, I've woken up with a few

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ceebmoj - 16/3/04 at 12:17 PM

Hi

I don’t think that the situation with the Mai Lai massacre was justified yes they where provoke in the most appalling of ways however this does not justify there action. I don’t know if I could keep it together with similar provocation but that dose not make the reaction right. Thoughs who commit war crimes should be prosecuted with the full force of the law regardless of the position in the conflict.

For thoues who have not seen a modem aerial attack it is scary loud and shocking it is hard to describe the assault on your senses that you feel. I was in a training exercise where a harrier launched a bunch of unguided rockets in to a near by building. I not ashamed to say I was scared s***less and legging it over there to get on with the attack was……

I am sure there are people on hear who have been involved in this sort of thing for real I have a lot of respect for them.


blake

ps sory about the speling gramer

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stephen_gusterson - 16/3/04 at 07:18 PM

in my sheltered world, the closest I have been to aerial attack was at Rockingham Motor Speedway at Corby!

A Tornado came over and when in the centre of the oval went full afterburner and did a vertical climb.

The noise was amazing. Jus that woulda scared the crap outa me without firing a weapon!

atb

steve

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Dave Ashurst - 16/3/04 at 10:05 PM

I was bombed once - not much fun. (and it broke my mother's heart, my dad told me years later.)

I was in Benghazi in 1986, despite Mrs Thatcher's advice, when waves of USAF bombers cracked in at supersonic speed and bombed and shot the place up one night in April. My flat was right in amongst it. A Libyan army parachute training camp 400m away was hit big style, which was nice, and I was also directly under their, low level, flight path to the airfield, another target. Additionally the planes were also being chased by Libyan SAMs fired from the coast which were dropping and bursting among the houses.

Somehow I slept through the whole thing. First thing I knew about it (nursing my darts match hangover) was on the morning BBC world service. In a flash I realised the flats had all been evacuated in the night, my Libyan neighbours had all gone, I was all alone (flatmate away on leave), there were troop trucks trundling past outside and my car was the only one in the carpark.

Interesting sensation.

Locals were not best pleased.

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stephen_gusterson - 16/3/04 at 10:12 PM

wow

I slept thro an earthquake in Japan once. Pretty tame to what you just described!

Those were F-111 from Lakenheath not too far from here I think......


atb

steve

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sgraber - 17/3/04 at 01:44 AM

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Ashurst
Interesting sensation.

Locals were not best pleased.

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That is such an interesting thing to say! I love it. Would that be called 'typical British understatement' then?

That's one HELL of a cool story! Are you going to divulge why you were in Libya?

[Edited on 3/17/04 by sgraber]

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Brooky - 17/3/04 at 10:36 AM

He could tell you, but he would have to kill you afterwards!

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Dave Ashurst - 17/3/04 at 01:11 PM

quote:

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why you were in Libya?

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I was an international playboy.

At that time I was helping maintain my lifestyle by assisting with supervision of the Benghazi city roads project as a civil engineer.

I am still a civil engineer.

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stephen_gusterson - 17/3/04 at 04:03 PM

but did they hit the bridge and give you more work

atb

steve

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Peteff - 17/3/04 at 05:06 PM

Weren't you on the Libyan Bullseye programme with Jim Moamar Gadaffi Bowen. Super, smashin, just look what you could have won a fortnight for two in Bosnia.

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Dave Ashurst - 17/3/04 at 08:27 PM

quote:

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but did they hit the bridge and give you more work?

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They missed the bridge so we (eventually) went home

Pete, I can tell you'd have enjoyed it there.

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