Currently driving a Golf GTI MK3 with the 8V engine. It has 122lbs/ft of torque @ 3200rpm and 115bhp @ 5400rpm.
It weighs about 1100kg
Nothing startling in other words, but quite a torquey little bugger and easy to drive and make progress without rowing the gears. Both power and
torque appear pretty early.
For the last week or so I have also been driving an Alfa 156 Sportwagon which has a variable valve timing 16V engine with 120lbs/ft of torque @
3,900rpm and 140bhp @ 6,500rpm. It weighs around 1300kg.
I haven't seen any graphs for either car so can't really talk about the curves for either. Whatever the case, the Alfa feels utterly gutless
in comparison with the Golf.
It may be much keener once you manage to wind the crank up to the bigger numbers, but otherwise it's just not interested.
You can't beat easily accessible low down grunt for a road car and although the Alfa may have 35bhp more at peak, it also has 200kg extra to haul
around.
I don't exactly know what I'm saying here, but it shows to go you. Peak power numbers aren't everything.
I was convinced I would be buying the Alfa, but now I'm not so sure. It looks very very cool, but I really don't like gutless cars.
(I'm saying all of this, but please rest assured that the Kawasaki in the Sylva will kiss the 10,500rpm rev limiter with every gearchange.)
turbo , turbo , turbo .
area under the curve is always more important than peak numbers .
im aware neither of your motors are turboed , but the point is the torque curve is always flat and broad when in boost .
quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
turbo , turbo , turbo .
area under the curve is always more important than peak numbers .
im aware neither of your motors are turboed , but the point is the torque curve is always flat and broad when in boost .
my two daily drivers are worlds apart.
Volvo v70 AWD 2.5 turbo 193HP
MGZR 160 HP
Obviously the volvo feels a lot more wallowy but is no slouch in a straight line despite its extra weight. The turbos power delivery is very smooth,
helped by the torque converter and auto box no doubt.
The MG is a lot more stressful to drive as its power delivery is more abrupt and high in the rev range. But it handles very well and feels very
tight.
[Edited on 17/10/09 by liam.mccaffrey]
BHP sells engines, Torque wins races......
Doing loads of research on the Pinto and am starting to read between the lines of the Tuning books, mid range torque is the key to a fast road car,
ultimate bhp is only seen higher up the rev range for a smaller period of time.
The under the curve area is a useful thing to look out for and i will keep that in mind as i formulate a cunning plan.
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Doing loads of research on the Pinto and am starting to read between the lines of the Tuning books, mid range torque is the key to a fast road car, ultimate bhp is only seen higher up the rev range for a smaller period of time.
simple fact is you cant have BHP without torque and vice versa. In my mind its always best to have a nice mix of both and ensure that they peak at roughly the same place, theres not point in having them at opposite ends of the graph.
The 8v Golf engine always did punch above its weight when the 16v was introduced I remember everybody complaining that it didn't have the grunt
of the 8v.
With the Alfa it could be down to flywheel weight or some thing might be wrong such as the variator being up the spout or the catalysr being choked
or a valve or valve timing timing problem.
What is actually important is average BHP between the RPM at which you change gear and the RPM at which the next gear engages. If you have a very
peaky engine then you might get 200BHP at peak but assuming you go beyond peak power RPM before changing gear and then drop below peak power RPM after
the gear change then the average BHP might only be 180BHP. With a less peaky engine you might get the same peak power (200BHP) but average closer to
190 or 195BHP due to the flatter power curve either side of peak power RPM.
Power is what wins races not torque, but it is average power which matters! Having said that, it is easier to drive a torquey car than it is to drive
a highly tuned screamer but a top driver will almost always get better results with more power regardless of how much torque is available.
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
What is actually important is average BHP between the RPM at which you change gear and the RPM at which the next gear engages. If you have a very peaky engine then you might get 200BHP at peak but assuming you go beyond peak power RPM before changing gear and then drop below peak power RPM after the gear change then the average BHP might only be 180BHP. With a less peaky engine you might get the same peak power (200BHP) but average closer to 190 or 195BHP due to the flatter power curve either side of peak power RPM.
Power is what wins races not torque, but it is average power which matters! Having said that, it is easier to drive a torquey car than it is to drive a highly tuned screamer but a top driver will almost always get better results with more power regardless of how much torque is available.
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
What is actually important is average BHP between the RPM at which you change gear and the RPM at which the next gear engages. If you have a very peaky engine then you might get 200BHP at peak but assuming you go beyond peak power RPM before changing gear and then drop below peak power RPM after the gear change then the average BHP might only be 180BHP. With a less peaky engine you might get the same peak power (200BHP) but average closer to 190 or 195BHP due to the flatter power curve either side of peak power RPM.
Power is what wins races not torque, but it is average power which matters! Having said that, it is easier to drive a torquey car than it is to drive a highly tuned screamer but a top driver will almost always get better results with more power regardless of how much torque is available.