...things can only get better...yeah right...

Clicky

What else can we do though? If the last lot hadn't run up such massive debts and hadn't been spending £4 for every £3 it raised, we wouldn't be in such a mess in the first place. National debt is approaching £1,000,000,000,000.00 and growing. The interest on that loan in about £80,000 per minute. That is your and my tax that is being given away at a rate of £80,000 a minute or £6,900,000 per day. If we don't cut public spending or raise taxes, or a combination of both, we WILL become bankrupt.

Nobody likes cuts. Nobody wants to lose their job. If you can think of another way, do tell. We all need to know and quick.

quote:

---

Originally posted by smart51
What else can we do though? If the last lot hadn't run up such massive debts and hadn't been spending £4 for every £3 it raised, we wouldn't be in such a mess in the first place. National debt is approaching £1,000,000,000,000.00 and growing. The interest on that loan in about £80,000 per minute. That is your and my tax that is being given away at a rate of £80,000 a minute or £6,900,000 per day. If we don't cut public spending or raise taxes, or a combination of both, we WILL become bankrupt.

Nobody likes cuts. Nobody wants to lose their job. If you can think of another way, do tell. We all need to know and quick.

---

I have to say I'm glad they are doing some thing.

All the others did was spend spend spend now we are in the sh1te.

20% VAT great bring it on that has to be the best tax I have seen it affects everyone not even the rich can avoid it.

I'm not big on politics but what I do know is we are in the smelly stuff and we won't get out of it burying our head in the sand like Labour did.

I feel for anyone who has or will lose there jobs it really is horid, but it is for the good in the long run I believe as long as we can drag ourselves out of this mess.

You just have to look at what Canada did and how much of a difference it made in the long term.

High time government and beurocracy were cut down to size. They should start with the useless over-paid quangos. Let's see the deficit cleared, a surplus banked and taxes cut!

Twelve years of boom and they spent the lot, and got us into severe debt. Gordon Brown even claimed (god like) that he had beaten boom and bust! Ars*h*le. If he comes near me I'll blind him in the other eye.

I must say I dont know how people think were going to do it without changing our lifestyles a little. The 1.3million jobs will just be all these people that get paid to do nothing, which will cut down on all the bullshit in everyday life. think how easy registering your car may become!!
seriously though, it has to be done.
I just feel sorry for this lot, cause they are going to look really awful cause of these cuts, labour will be voted in again and destroy everything theyve worked 5 years to acheive...its happened before.

I agree with the VAT increase, it affects everyone equally. I always think its really harsh to just single out wealthy people, cause surely its people with massive debt who got us into this, not wealthy people? i think we should all pay equally. like by vat.

[Edited on 30/6/10 by A1]

I agree that we cannot continue to keep spending what we haven't got. I also think though that people making tough decsions should lead by example.

As MP's are public sector employees I expect them to be first to take a pay cut/no more gold plated pensions etc to show that they are prepared to suffer with the rest of us.

Under the last government I was made redundant more than once, looks like a change of leadership is again going to force me to brush up on my CV/interview skills, if there is a job to apply for that is.

Still until the axe actually falls there isn't much you can do but watch and wait

Agreed - Nobody likes it but it's reality.

It's just like me spending more than I earn, sooner or later it's got to change.

I think it's brave of them (probably no choice realy) to try and tackle the situation that the previous Govenment have created and clearly didn't want to own up to.

Had labour got back in what would they have done??

Typical example is giving "poor" kids £35 a week to stay on at college. My kids have loads of friends who get EMA and are better of the us and my kids never did.

Theres plenty of similar holes in the collander that need plugging.

I didnt say that I dont agree with some of the cuts. But another 1.3m people out of work doesnt help the economy very much either. Thats another 1.3m people that will be claiming benefits paid by taxes - some of which will be lower than their current salaries paid by the same money.

The UK cannot survive by providing services only - if we dont have anything tangible to sell then we will never sort the economy out. Without stuff to sell you bring in no money to the economy - pretty simple really.

How about encouraging young people to study sciences, engineering? Surely that's the best way to ensure our coutries brightest future for the UK. I haven't heard anything about this from any of the parties. Labour did more than any government in the last 30 years in reinstating and ecouraging apprenticeships for young people and bringing back vocational training. Lets hope the Condem(n)s continue on this vein.

We are a country run by people with sociology, history and english degrees whom I dont think understand the amount of technical expertise in the country and I dont think they understand the importance of it either. This expertise should be encouraged and used to push the UK back into the limelight as a technological pioneer rather than banking and services.

Professional engineers and scientists have been pushing for this for a long time, but its fell on deaf ears.

Personally, as an engineer, I dont see a very bright future for the UK in this area and I know a lot of excellent, young engineers who feel the same way. Without some government backing for new start up businesses (a lot of which has been scrapped too) then a lot of this talent is leaving the country. Me included, if things continue the way they are now, I wont be staying in the UK for much longer than another 5 years - I will take my knowledge out of the country along with the other 1000's of Engineering and science graduates that do the same every year.

Hasent the ministers already taken a pay cut and hasent our leader refused the primeministers pension scheme. So I think they are trying.

I agree these things need to be done, probability little later rather than sooner.

The real joke is that they say the private sector will take up the slack left by the public sector shrinking- well who is going to pay them to do that??

Rich people will just put their major purchases through their businesses to avoid the vat.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hector.Brocklebank
... we ALL have to tighten our belts and pay the piper.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by flak monkey
I didnt say that I dont agree with some of the cuts. But another 1.3m people out of work doesnt help the economy very much either. Thats another 1.3m people that will be claiming benefits paid by taxes - some of which will be lower than their current salaries paid by the same money.

The UK cannot survive by providing services only - if we dont have anything tangible to sell then we will never sort the economy out. Without stuff to sell you bring in no money to the economy - pretty simple really.

How about encouraging young people to study sciences, engineering? Surely that's the best way to ensure our coutries brightest future for the UK. I haven't heard anything about this from any of the parties. Labour did more than any government in the last 30 years in reinstating and ecouraging apprenticeships for young people and bringing back vocational training. Lets hope the Condem(n)s continue on this vein.

We are a country run by people with sociology, history and english degrees whom I dont think understand the amount of technical expertise in the country and I dont think they understand the importance of it either. This expertise should be encouraged and used to push the UK back into the limelight as a technological pioneer rather than banking and services.

Professional engineers and scientists have been pushing for this for a long time, but its fell on deaf ears.

Personally, as an engineer, I dont see a very bright future for the UK in this area and I know a lot of excellent, young engineers who feel the same way. Without some government backing for new start up businesses (a lot of which has been scrapped too) then a lot of this talent is leaving the country. Me included, if things continue the way they are now, I wont be staying in the UK for much longer than another 5 years - I will take my knowledge out of the country along with the other 1000's of Engineering and science graduates that do the same every year.

---

So the last 'sorry shower' created public sector jobs, which weren't even needed, yet alone 'created' anything, except to cost us, the tax payer millions, and get 'gilded' pensions for doing nothing apart from being a waste of space, and you moan because this 'lot' have said enough is enough ?!?!?

So another 1.3 million will be jobless which is a shame for the individuals, but......in the main, the public sector were not doing anything anyway, apart from being paid by us (tax payer), and having pensions and pay-offs at the end of it, the like of which we (the tax payer) will never see.

About time someone called a halt to the 'gravy train'.... ....

With regard to education, I am sorry to say, that over the years, this too, in many respects has become 'dumbed down' ...
The bar needs to be higher, much higher, to get back on the same level as the rest of the world.......

Fozzie

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fozzie
With regard to education, I am sorry to say, that over the years, this too, in many respects has become 'dumbed down' ...
The bar needs to be higher, much higher, to get back on the same level as the rest of the world.......

---

A general comment from an outsider:

Always felt that one way to boost the economy is to force the public sector staff below the level of senior management (need their skills) to take early retirement at 50 without the right to the dole for first 5 years after retirement so that they are forced to take their skills to create businesses to survive on their inadequate pensions and have enough time and energy to make a success of the businesses.

That's what I did to myself and so far it's working 9 years down the track.

[Edited on 30/6/10 by Ivan]

As regards education being dumbed down, I thought this too till I saw a very interesting piece on this on TV recently. Turns out IQ's have been rising year on year and kids now are cleverer than they've ever been.

Teenagers might not seem that way (I would be the first to say this) but the facts suggests they are on the whole a fair bit cleverer than most of us when we were the same age.

I left school expectign a trade at the colliery, Thatcher decided to cancel the NCB apprenticeship scheme that year....

I was made redundant last year under Browns eye.

I am making myself unemployed in 3.5 weeks time. I WILL NOT be going to the dole, it was the worst experience of my life last year and I will not be doing it again. I will fend for myself.

All in I think the coalition is a little fairer than any single party and am only a little dismayed at the rise in the tax threshhold to 7500 instead of the talked at 10500.

I thought about leaving this country as well but that would just make me an immigrant somewhere else, one of the things I really resent... too old now anyway

I agree that we need to promote engineering, manufacture and high tech services for export. I do think the Beeb has actually helped a little by promoting engineering and vocational skills in their programming, and other channels have followed. We certainly need to do much more to develop engineering and manufacturing, but it needs to be high tech to compete with nations with endlesss low paid human resources.

Bring back National Service

I honestly don't expect the current crew to be any better than the last in fact about the same as the prior lot

Time will tell but like anything speculate to accumulate

[Edited on 30/6/10 by bmseven]

What I don't understand is why I'm getting off so lightly out of the deal? I'm 31, no kids, no debts and earn decent money and can and would be happy to pay more than my fair share towards sorting this problem but to be honest I'll be surprised if I notice a difference at all. That seems a bit backwards to me?

Funny enough just the other day I was wondering how the 'last lot' mismanaged the economy to leave us £155 Billion in deficit. In all those years of prosperity couldn't they have saved something? Anything?

Then I remembered The Banking Crisis. There were some big figures floating around then.

The Daily Telegraph puts the cost at 26.7% of GDP.

How much is that? Well Wikipedia gives it as £2000 -2100 Billion for 2009.

A quarter of that is about £500 Billion.

But that's not a true 'cost' figure, it's the total underwritten by the Gov't.

The amount of GDP we've actually lost is roughly 15-20% according to the Bank of England.

This means somewhere close to £300 Billion.

It looks to me as though the banking crisis is the cause of the huge hole in our Exchequer. Not necessarily Labour incompetence. Of course they could have let the banks go to the wall, but I don't think many folk thinks that was a great idea.

[Edited on 30/6/10 by alister667]

And which nation were central to the financial meltdown... that'll be the USA with all their sub-prime lending nonsense!

And has Obama said much about it... not really... but he's pretty damn good at berating other nations when their agencies screw-up!

I was digging a little more. Of course the GDP does not equate to the amount of money the Gov't spends (or can spend) every year.

According to The Guardian (great diagram!) the Govt was spending £608 Billion in 2008 / 2009.

It's not hard to see the effect a few missing hundred Billion income has in the exchequer.

I wonder if any of that 1.3 million losing their jobs will be repatriated foreign nationals?
If we are in debt, how can we give so much away in foreign aid?
We are effectively borrowing money from the IMF, paying horrendous interest and then giving it away.
How can we afford to engage in two wars that were initiated by lies anyway?
They say they are considering cutting benefits, to encourage people to go back to work. Where are the jobs for them to seek?
Why do the government vilify people on benefit, seek custodial sentences for some poor sod that fiddled a few quid on the side to buy stuff for their family (bearing in mind that in real terms, dole is worth about half what it was in the early seventies), yet refuse to prosecute MPs for stealing tens of thousands?
I'm glad I'm old and won't be around to see where this is all going to end up.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jasper
As regards education being dumbed down, I thought this too till I saw a very interesting piece on this on TV recently. Turns out IQ's have been rising year on year and kids now are cleverer than they've ever been.

Teenagers might not seem that way (I would be the first to say this) but the facts suggests they are on the whole a fair bit cleverer than most of us when we were the same age.

---

Hope that everybody who thinks that what's coming is all a good thing, and that we all need to tighten our belts, and that it's awfully unfortunate that there will be 1.3 million unemployed, and we need to be hard, and do our bit, doesn't think that they themselves are untouchable when it comes to unemployment and that it will only affect those who work for excessively manned beaurocratic government departments....no matter what, where and how the first cuts come, the ripples will spread far and wide....anybody who would like to volunteer to be laid off to help cut Government debt in place of someone who needs to keep a job please shout up.

I anticipate silence...

Yes it will be tough going, very tough going...
and you are right no one is untouchable.....

We have our own business, and when the Banking crisis hit and many went 'to the wall' all manner and types of business's were hit with the knock on effect.
For instance, we rely on certain suppliers, if they are hit, we are too......if our customers are tightening their respective belts, the first thing to tighten their spending on are their 'toys' ...... so, we get 'hit' again .....

Thus it will happen again now, all types of business's will be affected. No one is immune.

We all have to tighten our respective belts and pare down spending, as do the Government.....

Fozzie

Edit for typo

[Edited on 30-6-10 by Fozzie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by sucksqueezebangblowGordon Brown even claimed (god like) that he had beaten boom and bust! Ars*h*le.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by richard thomas
Hope that everybody who thinks that what's coming is all a good thing, and that we all need to tighten our belts, and that it's awfully unfortunate that there will be 1.3 million unemployed, and we need to be hard, and do our bit, doesn't think that they themselves are untouchable when it comes to unemployment and that it will only affect those who work for excessively manned beaurocratic government departments....no matter what, where and how the first cuts come, the ripples will spread far and wide....anybody who would like to volunteer to be laid off to help cut Government debt in place of someone who needs to keep a job please shout up.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul TigerB6

quote:

---

Originally posted by richard thomas
Hope that everybody who thinks that what's coming is all a good thing, and that we all need to tighten our belts, and that it's awfully unfortunate that there will be 1.3 million unemployed, and we need to be hard, and do our bit, doesn't think that they themselves are untouchable when it comes to unemployment and that it will only affect those who work for excessively manned beaurocratic government departments....no matter what, where and how the first cuts come, the ripples will spread far and wide....anybody who would like to volunteer to be laid off to help cut Government debt in place of someone who needs to keep a job please shout up.

---

Those 1.3million are talked about over 5 years - and chances are the huge majority will find jobs elsewhere in something more constructive such as all the bullsh1t roles created by Labour to create meaningless statistics, and not just put the jobless total up by 1.3million!! Is that was the case and the benefits bill was forced up then the sums simply wouldnt work.

Labour would have simply compounded the huge pile of crap they've left this country in if they'd stayed in power. Things are going to be tough but do you have a better answer than to cut back?? Silence......

PS If quoting the 1.3m losses from the article then lets quote the bit further down the same article...... "The Treasury is assuming that growth in the private sector will create 2.5m jobs in the next five years to compensate "

I make that a net 1.2m increase!!

PPS my father retires from the public sector in September and is unlikely to be replaced (plus he wont get the bonus he was due to get) so thats just 1,299,999 to find now


[Edited on 30/6/10 by Paul TigerB6]

---

i think you'll find the 1.3m jobs to go is made up mostly of assumptions.

So lets do the sums. 600,000 public sector jobs to go over 5 years. 6.09million people work in the public sector according to the Office of National Statistics, so thats almost 10% to "lose" their jobs. Now if we say that the average person has a working life of 40 years then over the next 5 years, 5/40 (1/8th) will retire. Thats 12.5% - or more than the number of jobs that'll go through the cutbacks.

Not all will go at the older end obviously, but still, looks to me like 1.3m people arent suddenly about to be dumped on the dole!!

One thing that isnt an assumption is that £1 trillion of national debt isnt just going to go away without some real action?? What was Labour's answer to the debt........ spend £160 billion more than we had in 2009!!

[Edited on 30/6/10 by Paul TigerB6]

We are always looking for good people. It's based on points more than anything else nowadays, so get your call in to Canada House in London, and find out what the Government of Canada wants. Don't live in the place I do though. The weather is truly brutal: tropically humid, or effing cold. You're welcome.

quote:

---

Originally posted by RK
We are always looking for good people. It's based on points more than anything else nowadays, so get your call in to Canada House in London, and find out what the Government of Canada wants. Don't live in the place I do though. The weather is truly brutal: tropically humid, or effing cold. You're welcome.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hector.Brocklebank
but there comes a time when we ALL have to tighten our belts and pay the piper.

---

I may have to copy and paste this thread back when I see a thread in 5 years about

1) having to wait years for an operation
2) everyones inheritance disappearing on very basic care packages for elderly parents or maybe your wives?
3) it's very easy to moan about the public sector, but the cuts won't get rid if the wastes if space.

They will be too expensive to get rid of.

The bosses will sit in the well paid jobs and set out the future in which their departments will get bigger not smaller. And so they can be sure to keep there jobs.

The whole thing leaves me cold - all the politicians are in parliament for varying levels of self interest.

I live in the poorest county in England and yet the local council have over 30 'managers' on over £100k pa, I am now on significantly on less than a fifth of that after my old company went bust - and my new employer is look very shakey at the moment.

Unless we actually start MAKING stuff and selling it abroad we are flogging a dead horse.