I had a discussion last night with a mechanic friend about what constitutes a production car . Specifically i said that he was wrong when he claimed some car was the fastest production car. Can't remember whixch car he said but i said it was the ultima that was quickest.

he dissagreed with me saying that the ultima was not a production car, its a kit car as it doesn't come with airbags?????

Firstly what constitutes a production car, surely not airbag

Secondly who is right. is the ultima the fastest 0-100-0 or is there something else

many thanks Liam

its been in the kitcar and evo magazines that the ultima is the quickest 0-100, 0-100-0 and other records as witnessed/checked by the bods from guiness world records.

the ultima can be bought as a turnkey car from the manufacturer and as such has stricter emissions and some other regs over a normal private built/sva'd kitcar, so does count as a limited production, production car or similar term iirc. happy to be corrected (as always )

Ned.

[Edited on 28/7/05 by ned]

"Production" relates to the number of vehicles produced isnt it?

To back you up though:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=20&t=119292

Nick

A production car is a car that is built by the manufacturer and offered for sale to the public, isn't it. Even if they don't sell any of them, they were still "produced". I don't think that there is a numerical limit. If Aston Martin sold 19 of a particularly expensive car, you couldn't say "that's less than 20 so it's not a production car." surely?

A kit car is not a production car as you have to make it your self.

What about a car that is sold fully build and as a kit?

For years the Mclaren F1 was referred to as:
"The Fastest Production Road Car" and it has (had!) the world records to confirm it.

It certainly does not have airbags and they only built just over 100 (including prototypes)!


Cheers,
James

So the Elise is a kit car then by his standard.

this is what i was thinking of when i said 'limited production' i meant 'low volume':

http://www.vca.gov.uk/downloads/files/vca001.pdf

My mate runs Ultima and that question does not have an easy answer!

If you were being very strict, then a production car must be type approved (as I believe the McLaren is) but the records don't seem to require that.

What they do seem to observe is that a turn-key car is available, and that the car is available in the spec tested to the general public. Obviously it must also pass SVA. This is where things get interesting because in the past several manufacturers have submitted cars for the record using US made tyres, which are DOT approved, and thus road legal in the UK, but which would not pass SVA as they are not E-marked.

The Ultima used E-marked tyres, and was only tested on std unprepared runway tarmac. (the Mclaren used a specially laid surface, and caterham did a LOT of prep before their records)

The Ultima 0-100-0 record, at 9.8 secs, will soon be broken, by the way, by ultima again. For that record, they did not have a "pre-emptive" shift light, i.e. the light only came on at 100mph, so the reaction time (std average is 0.3-0.4 secs) comes in before the driver (my mate on all runs so far) can get on the brake.With the light set to come on a touch early, and then taking the quickest 0-100 and the quickest 100-0 runs, very low 9 sec runs will be on the cards.

Oh yes, the runs were also done with 680hp, and they have a 720hp engine waiting in the wings. Oh yes, the car was also geared for top end, not accelleration, (it's geared for 231mph and gets there), with the close ratio gearset in rather than the 70mph first that the car has now, it should be quicker again.

So any other record attempters may have their work cut out!!!!

(oh yes, all runs using a basic carburettored chevy v8 too, not too tricky to add a supercharger or a pair of turbo's should the need arise!)

Will your mate have a good turn out before the run to make sure it's as light as possible?

Drive naked maybe?

Cheers,
James

Shall I ask him?

errrm............ for some reason i don't think it matters that much. To be honest, i'm not sure what adding a super charger / turbo will do - there has to be a limit to the traction he can get and he's got to be close.

hmmm, don't suppose they've got any second hand engines have they? I know this bloke that wants around 300hp in his grasser.......

My understanding is that if it is built and then sold as a complete unit it is production. I'm sure numbers don't have anything to do with it as the deLaren is refured to as a production car but I beleive only 8 were ever made. Similar story with the ford gt40 mk1.

Having said that please feel free to correct me since I've got everything else wrong today so why not this?

you may well be right, but my mate is always at pains to point out that everything that needs to be is E-marked on the ultima, and that most of the other cars setting similar times are using non e-marked parts (mainly in terms of tyres)

For example, in a recent test in the times magazine, where a supercharged ariel atom was involved, the car was apparently on race tyres and a certain other kit car company demanded they be changed.

Incidentally, Ultima were invited to the test and declined, for two reasons, 1) the car was at Le Mans! and 2) it was supposed to be a test of performance, but turned out to only be 0-60!!!! When Ultima suggested 0-100 and 0-100-0, (and 0-150, 0-200!!!!!) the other companies involved were not interested in the idea!!!

Aaaah, so you spoke to your mate about that. I did wonder why they where not present. Not surprised the other companies where not interested, the article would have made them look very VERY bad.

I did find the justification for 0-60 in the article 'interesting'.