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Which is the best Diesel Engine?

wilkingj - 12/10/07 at 11:38 AM

I am having a silly thought, as one does!.

I am thinking of chaning the engine for a Diesel.
OK, with not a lot of weight a Diesel should go fairly well. However, it wouldnt sound that good.

Anyone go any good ideas for a decent compact powerful diesel.

Like the Audo V6 diesel gives 150bhp, and they go fairly well, and should perform reasonably well in a Locost.

Any other ideas from the team??
Almost certainly be turbo'd to get any performance at all.

Thanks in advance

[Edited on 12/10/2007 by wilkingj]

worX - 12/10/07 at 11:43 AM

I always remember the topgear episode when clarkson drove the Audi (I think it was an audi anyway!) to scotland and back on the one tank... Was it the W10 engine in an A8?

Steve

lsdweb - 12/10/07 at 11:50 AM

I've got the V6 in my A4 - it's 220BHP and 330 lbs ft of torque! The car goes from 50 to 150 like a train.......

I'd say the engine's a bit big and heavy for a '7'.

Wyn

ditchlewis - 12/10/07 at 11:51 AM

Well...

the V6 would be a weighty option for 150Bhp
Volkswagen
the PD150 is a 4 cyl option with the same power out put it would be less weighty. this can be chipped to 180 to 190 bhp.
the PD130 can be chipped to about 170 bhp.

these are FWD and so would need adaptors and a GOOD strong Box.

then there is BMW already a RWD.
the 2.5 straight 6 from the 325, and early 525.

the 3.0 straight 6 from the 530 and 330.

the 1.8tds
the 2.0 straight 4 from the 320d.

these in the latest form range from 143bhp in the 318 to 204bhp in the 123d( but i suspect that you wont find one of these as they have only been out a couple of weeks.

i have a new 318d and it has an ace engine but full of electronics.

for a locost option how about the 1.8td from the last of the sierra
this is what westfield used and the power was upped to 105bhp and was lively

what ever you use be prepared for the tractor comparrisons

ditch

Marcus - 12/10/07 at 11:54 AM

I'd look at the 2.4 5 pot Alfa / Fiat engine.
Around 170 bhp, chippable to over 200!

Paul TigerB6 - 12/10/07 at 12:00 PM

The bloke i sold my 3.14 sierra diff was building a Westie over in Ireland with a diesel engine. The build was being featured in Practical Performance Car I think he said.

Anyone seen this at all???

arrybradbury - 12/10/07 at 12:00 PM

3 litre diesel from the 330d gets my vote if you can find one!! Rapid in the saloon let alone in something half the weight!!

Editted to add the new 3 litre diesel in the X3 is pushing out 286hp

[Edited on 12/10/07 by arrybradbury]

dan__wright - 12/10/07 at 12:01 PM

vaux cdti 1.9 150, remap sees big gains . the 888 astra uses this engine (tweaked map) and rivals the astra vxr!

speedyxjs - 12/10/07 at 12:02 PM

The only deisels i have driven are our vans. The kangoo is s**t but the fiat doblo 1.9 has a really good one and so does our ford transit 1.8 and that has a turbo. They dont have much power but they can outrun most chavs, especially the transit

britishtrident - 12/10/07 at 12:06 PM

The BMW TD diesel in the R75 and FreeLander is pretty good, identical performance to the 1,8 K but putting it in a light sevenish car might not work.

Volvorsport - 12/10/07 at 12:11 PM

iank - 12/10/07 at 12:15 PM

Be better with one of the new small all alloy 16V diesels, assuming you can get a rwd gearbox glued on.

Something like the 1.6 TDCi from the new Focus
or even the 1.3 from the recent Fiats and Corsa.

DaveFJ - 12/10/07 at 12:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Marcus
I'd look at the 2.4 5 pot Alfa / Fiat engine.
Around 170 bhp, chippable to over 200!

But that's petrol......

wilkingj - 12/10/07 at 12:20 PM

Hmm Keep the ideas coming, I have a 3.38 diff to help things alone a but. Plently of torque and the right gearing, and low weight should go fairly well.

Well AS for weight, me and the Son weigh in at 41 Stones between us (260Kgs of us sitting in an 800Kg Car), so a few more Kg's of engine wont matter too much,
Its a Viento, so plenty of room.

Also thought of the 6.2 Litre v8 GM Engine (diesel from a Hummer).
OK only 160Bhp to start with, but with turbo's will go to 250bhp plus, and 400 plus Ft Lbs. might need a different geaboxs and back axle though!

Plus its a V8.

More Crazy Ideas please.. after all its Friday afternoon.
Geoff

wilkingj - 12/10/07 at 12:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
D5

Err forgive my iggerance... Is that a Volvo engine?
If so, in line?, and howmany bhp's

graememk - 12/10/07 at 12:22 PM

i think vauxhal do a 1.3 dti now around the 90ps area

also wasnt gbs doing a diesel a few months ago ?

arrybradbury - 12/10/07 at 12:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj

quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
D5

Err forgive my iggerance... Is that a Volvo engine?
If so, in line?, and howmany bhp's

2.4D all-aluminium five-cylinder turbo diesel engine - 163bhp - i think......

Volvorsport - 12/10/07 at 01:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by arrybradbury

quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj

quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
D5

Err forgive my iggerance... Is that a Volvo engine?
If so, in line?, and howmany bhp's

2.4D all-aluminium five-cylinder turbo diesel engine - 163bhp - i think......

and ive just ordered an adapter plate to getrag for_not_much_money

tuners in sweden use the block for petrol turbos running 1000hp .

the diesels can pump out 400nm 185 hp in euro 4 spec , 225 , 460 nm chipped .

[Edited on 12/10/07 by Volvorsport]

macspeedy - 12/10/07 at 01:49 PM

how about vw based

mk 2 turbo diesel golf

macspeedy - 12/10/07 at 02:24 PM

heres some more on going work my brother is involved in

vw caddy

its running considerably more than this at the moment but i can't say how much !!

macspeedy - 12/10/07 at 02:26 PM

here some more amazing stuff for bmw nutters

bmw blogg

pics link

[Edited on 12/10/07 by macspeedy]

britishtrident - 12/10/07 at 04:10 PM

To put things in perpective BMW TD4 as fitted to Rover 75 is 124 kg heavier than the Rover K16 1.8

Roughly 1/8th of a ton

Simon - 12/10/07 at 05:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by arrybradbury
3 litre diesel from the 330d gets my vote if you can find one!! Rapid in the saloon let alone in something half the weight!!

Editted to add the new 3 litre diesel in the X3 is pushing out 286hp
[Edited on 12/10/07 by arrybradbury]

That's what I was going to suggest as my new diff has just arrived. It's from one of them, with a final drive ratio of 2.28:1.

Prod car limited to 155, 60 just under 7 secs!

ATB

Simon

[Edited on 12/10/07 by Simon]

SixedUp - 12/10/07 at 07:38 PM

I have the BMW 2.5 diesel in my 525 estate. About 177bhp and 295lb/ft torque. Pulls like a train, even in such a big and heavy car. The 3.0 is the same, but more so. However, these are NOT small engines ...

However, if you're happy with big, what about the Audi 4.2 V8 TDi? 326bhp & 479lb/ft ?

Cheers
Richard

darrens - 12/10/07 at 07:50 PM

i think your nuts, nuts I say!! just think what the sound track is gonna be like. boo

just my two penny worth

nick205 - 12/10/07 at 08:09 PM

modern turbo diesel engine power delivery whilst impressive is very sudden and short lived. This is fine for chubby tin tops BMW's, Audi's etc for regular everyday driving. In fact I wouldn't go back to a petrol tin top now.

But IMHO it would be rubbish in a lightweight 7 style car. Too much torque too soon would equal wheelspin and turbo kick out of corners is asking for grief.

What's wrong with tuning a V8 n/a petrol motor?

Rob Palin - 12/10/07 at 09:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SixedUp
I have the BMW 2.5 diesel in my 525 estate. About 177bhp and 295lb/ft torque. Pulls like a train, even in such a big and heavy car. The 3.0 is the same, but more so. However, these are NOT small engines ...

I have a 330D and it does pull like a train, but it also corners like one! The 3 litre BMW diesel is ~100kg heavier than the 2 litre and not much quicker.

The extra displacement makes the delivery less peaky, sure, but the downside is that chuffing huge lump of metal you're trying to convince to turn around corners.

I think most diesels are too heavy for a 7. A big-ish bike engine seems much more suited to the original 7 ethos. Light, compact, enough torque to cruise on, mad power when you want it and an addictive noise to go with it. Oh God, i'm going BEC!

richard thomas - 12/10/07 at 09:17 PM

Geoff....behave!! You'll be deaf from the clatter and choked from the soot!

But if i had to choose.....2.25 landrover

Rich.

Simon - 12/10/07 at 10:09 PM

I reckon if you have a large 7 (book + or Viento) and ran it with turbo diesel and auto box, it might well be a laugh

Go for it

ATB

Simon

Aboardman - 12/10/07 at 10:26 PM

I drove a saab 93 1.9 tid 150ps 6 speed the other day and i was impressed with that, but that is front wheel drive.

iank - 12/10/07 at 11:05 PM

No real soot - or at least no worse than petrol exhaust - from a new design. But the problem with diesels (have one as a tintop - it's very good for motorway schlepping of large amounts of stuff) is the noise at idle. I'm told it's the pump(s) that make most of the racket.

Simon - 13/10/07 at 12:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by iank
I'm told it's the pump(s) that make most of the racket.

They have to do excess of 20,000psi, I think I'd make funny noises too

ATB

Simon

907 - 13/10/07 at 06:45 AM

quote:
Originally posted by nick205
modern turbo diesel engine power delivery whilst impressive is very sudden and short lived. This is fine for chubby tin tops BMW's, Audi's etc for regular everyday driving. In fact I wouldn't go back to a petrol tin top now.

But IMHO it would be rubbish in a lightweight 7 style car. Too much torque too soon would equal wheelspin and turbo kick out of corners is asking for grief.

Hi Geof,

I agree with nick 100% on this one.

If it's economy that's the main reason for your thoughts, then have you considered converting your V8 to LPG?

atb
Paul G

Johnmor - 13/10/07 at 10:03 AM

Thats Sacrilege, my expierence of diesels has been great ,but they are great for specific reasons,

It wont respond like a petrol, the car is light and the short power band and high torque wont suit the response you would expect in a small nippy locost.

Sounds like a truck!!!

Even Alfas diesel sound like a diesel!!!

Lastly ,
Diesel engines for trucks, car engines for cars and (this'll cause a stir) bike engines for bikes

akumabito - 13/10/07 at 01:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
Also thought of the 6.2 Litre v8 GM Engine (diesel from a Hummer).
OK only 160Bhp to start with, but with turbo's will go to 250bhp plus, and 400 plus Ft Lbs. might need a different geaboxs and back axle though!

Plus its a V8.

Hey, not fair! I was going to suggest a V8 turbo diesel! You've got the wrong engine entirely though!

What you want would be the Ford 6.0 Powerstroke. 320Hp in stock form, with chip and open exhaust it'll see ridiculous power in the 450 to 500 Hp range.. racing versions with bigger turbo's, injectors, etc., etc are pushing 1,500 Hp. (silly money spent though, and not a snowball's chance in hell you'd pass emissions)

But then again, the V8 engine + transmission combo weighs about the same as a heavy BEC or light CEC. They're about the same size, too.. And if you think a normal Seven has bad aerodynamics, just wait until you've made space for the HUGE radiator and intercooler!

But hey, you asked for silly ideas, no?

Seriously though.. late model VW or AUDI turbodiesels? Shouldn't be too big, and offer very decent power. Just taking a quick look:

Let's see.. the 2006 and up Golf Sportline is available with a 2.0l 170Hp engine. Too bad its 6-speed transmission is useless for a Seven..

I'm guessing the 2.0 in the A4 is the same engine? The A4 also comes with 2.5, 2.7 and 3.0 versions though.. the 2.5 and larger are V6 engines though, 167, 180 and 204hp respectively.

akumabito - 13/10/07 at 01:51 PM

Hm.. perhaps the 1.4 TDi from the Smart ForFour? Only about 95Hp in stock form, but it should be relatively small and light, as it is only a 3 pot.. In the 1000kg Smart it accelerates to 60mph in just over 10 seconds. I guess acceleration wouldn't be half bad in a car that weighs about half..

Simon - 13/10/07 at 05:07 PM

The reason I suggested the auto, is so you avoid the need to change gear every second under acceleration.

Makes sense to me, though with injection and my silly new diff, I'm expecting 50+ mpg at constant throttle, which given todays traffic conditions is what it'll be most of the time!

ATB

Simon

speedyxjs - 14/10/07 at 08:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Johnmor
Even Alfas diesel sound like a diesel!!!

Thats made me think. May be a bit on the expensive side but jag deisels are seriously quiet.

ned - 15/10/07 at 08:56 AM

what about merc diesels, they come in rwd with a gearbox the right way round..

also vw 1.9tdi's in passat/a4 and a6 are longitudonal so the sump should be ok, just need a gearbox/adapter..

Ned.

wilkingj - 15/10/07 at 02:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Johnmor
Thats Sacrilege,
It wont respond like a petrol, the car is light and the short power band and high torque wont suit the response you would expect in a small nippy locost.

Sounds like a truck!!!

Lastly ,
Diesel engines for trucks, car engines for cars a

Hmmm Now what type of fuel was this, and last years Le Mans 24 hours winning cars fuelled by?

Krismc - 15/10/07 at 02:30 PM

quote:
the V6 would be a weighty option for 150Bhp

PD150 is a 4 cyl option with the same power out put it would be less weighty. this can be chipped to 180 to 190 bhp.
the PD130 can be chipped to about 170 bhp.
.

i would have to agree on the VAg (audi VW seat ENGINE)

Erm i have 3 vehicles with them in the passat FWD 2.5TD1 180BHP now 220BHP with 410Nm and the audi a4 1.9tdi quattro 130 Now 170BHp and 366NM, and the caddy FWD 104bhp.

The engines can come longatundinal or regular depending on if its came from a quattro on a FWD, if i was you the 1.9tdi Quattro engine is the better one, its smaller, lighter, sits the right direction, sump is tight up and adpaters for type 9 etc are available.

and for �1000 there is a 210bhp 445nm upgrade including new turbo, and superchip from starperformance!

Hellfire - 15/10/07 at 03:25 PM

The latest Seat Leon FR - 170bhp and 350Nm torque from 1800revs... I'd say VAG engine!

Steve