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Ha...
speedyxjs - 7/9/08 at 01:39 PM

ha
Shame hamilton is under investigation though

clairetoo - 7/9/08 at 01:43 PM

Dont see what for - maybe for over taking ?

gingerprince - 7/9/08 at 01:54 PM

Great that he won and fair play for keeping it on the road, but a bit farcical ice skating - not racing at all.

They should either have a mandatory "wet tyres flag" so you have to go straight in, or like the bikes under certain circumstances call the race there.

blakep82 - 7/9/08 at 02:01 PM

^ thats all part of racing.

hmm under investigation for beating ferarri i think

Paul TigerB6 - 7/9/08 at 02:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
Dont see what for - maybe for over taking ?


Or more accurately......... for overtaking a red car!!!

Dont see any reason why the rules should be changed - the race was 44 laps long and they deal with the conditions for the duration. They all had the option to come in to change their tyres so if they want to be 30+ secs a lap slower then thats the way it is. Heidfeld took the decission to come in with 2 laps to go and it gave him a podium.

CRAIGR - 7/9/08 at 02:07 PM

Yawn not boremula one again

blakep82 - 7/9/08 at 02:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CRAIGR
Yawn not boremula one again


er, did you even see the race? lol
i agree with you for the rest, but the last few laps made iup for it

CRAIGR - 7/9/08 at 02:11 PM

Yes did see the normal 3 car race between naps.
Watched some Ginetta and Seat racing on motorsport uk yesterday now thats entertainment.

[Edited on 7/9/08 by CRAIGR]

JoelP - 7/9/08 at 03:48 PM

seems to be over the nature of how he passed him, ie maybe surrendering the place wasnt enough to pacify the stewards if they think he retained an advantage into the next corner. However, seeing as the lead swapped twice after that, it would seem irrelevant.

JoelP - 7/9/08 at 03:51 PM

you might want to add an F1 spoiler tag to the title though, for people watching it later?!

DaveFJ - 7/9/08 at 03:53 PM

Kovalinen getting a penalty for tapping another car!! wtf? oh sory - drive through penalty for not having a red car... this really is getting ridiculous now!

matnrach - 7/9/08 at 04:28 PM

Just heard that Lewis has been demoted to third place!
What a joke.
If it was the other way around the FIA would have done nothing.

I think the FIA must stand for Ferrari Investigation Authority.

[Edited on 7/9/08 by matnrach]

l0rd - 7/9/08 at 04:39 PM

Although i hate the red cars and it is always them that are favoured in such occasions, it was a fair call as far as i am concerned.

[Edited on 7/9/08 by l0rd]

Alan B - 7/9/08 at 04:42 PM

Absolutely f******g ridiculous....if they felt they had to do something, what about 5 second penalty or something that would not affect the outcome, because it clearly did not affect the result...this getting to be a total farce...they will kill the sport...I really hope McLaren appeal this one...

jollygreengiant - 7/9/08 at 04:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by matnrach
Just heard that Lewis has been demoted to third place!
What a joke.
If it was the other way around the FIA would have done nothing.

I think the FIA must stand for Ferrari Investigation Authority.

[Edited on 7/9/08 by matnrach]

Blast beaten to it.

Ferrari’s Felipe Massa has been declared the winner of Sunday’s Belgian Grand Prix after McLaren’ Lewis Hamilton was handed a 25-second time penalty following the race. Hamilton drops to third place as a result, with BMW Sauber’s Nick Heidfeld moving up to second place.

Hamilton was penalised after stewards decided he had gained an advantage by cutting the final chicane in his late-race battle with Ferrari’s Kimi Raikkonen...

Taken from F1 web site link

As I suspected when they said there was to be an enquiry. Hamilton to be penalised for not driving a Ferrari. If it had been the other way round the ferrari would have only got a place drop in the next race.

matnrach - 7/9/08 at 04:49 PM

If Mclaren had let Lewis out of the pits like Ferrari did with Massa at Velencia, they would have been excluded and fined about $100K.
Something needs to be done.

Just switch off the TV!

craig1410 - 7/9/08 at 04:55 PM

I know I won't make many friends by saying this but until Hamilton learns some humility I don't think he deserves to win a championship. He's had everything laid out on a silver platter from day one and hasn't had to work for it like everyone else.

I like Kimi as a raw talent (and party animal...) but I have to say that Massa (who I didn't used to like) is gaining my respect through humbly working bloody hard, unlike Kimi it seems, and giving his best every race. I also respect Alonso hugely as he has also worked hard for every success he has had. He's perhaps a bit impetuous with the team at times but I think this can still be described as pushing the team rather than criticising them.

As for the penalty handed to hamilton I think it is correct as he clearly gained an advantage in retaining momentum by cutting out the chicane. He may well have let Kimi past but immediately ducked through his slipstream and attacked again. He should have backed off until after the next corner before attacking.

No doubt the conspiracy theorists will jump on this but I think it is a justified penalty.

Let the flames commence...

Craig.

russbost - 7/9/08 at 05:02 PM

How can you possibly gain an advantage by dropping behind somebody!!!!!
I expect it was Lewis's fault Kimi crashed for making him drive too fast, in future he should learn some humility & just drive behind the red cars as he clearly isn't going to be allowed to win the championship anyway!!

[Edited on 7/9/08 by russbost]

LBMEFM - 7/9/08 at 05:05 PM

Why do you guy's get so wound up about that F1 sh^t. Watch bike racing or go to your local circuit and watch or participate in clubman events. You will then realise that F1 is a tedious waste of space.

jollygreengiant - 7/9/08 at 05:09 PM

If you take the first chicane problem, Hamilton clearly had his nose in front at the apex. Raikenen decided not to concede the corner and forced Hamilton into the chicane or have an accident. Hamilton CLEARLY let Raikenen back into the lead, so, why didn't Raikenen capitalise on this instead of allowing Hamilton to come back at him

IF its about the second event Hamilton took avoiding action to avoid a car returning to the track after an off.

Either way, they were both racing incidents and to my mind Hamilton play by the rules and aquited himself well or better then those who were driving red cars and need ALL the assistance that they can muster from 'whatever' corner. Especially the 'Ferrari Investigation Authority'.

Something definitely smells and its worse than the infamous 'Stinky Bishop' cheese.

JUD - 7/9/08 at 05:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
I know I won't make many friends by saying this but until Hamilton learns some humility I don't think he deserves to win a championship. He's had everything laid out on a silver platter from day one and hasn't had to work for it like everyone else.


How is that then? I don't get the "handed to him on a plate" line. Ron signed him up years ago and he has been successful at the majority of the formula he has competed in. He is better than his team mate and was better than Alonso last year.

quote:
I like Kimi as a raw talent (and party animal...)


Ah - Party animal - that makes him more interesting and hence more worthy of stewards decisions...?


quote:
As for the penalty handed to hamilton I think it is correct as he clearly gained an advantage in retaining momentum by cutting out the chicane. He may well have let Kimi past but immediately ducked through his slipstream and attacked again. He should have backed off until after the next corner before attacking.


Assuming that he had done that, are you suggesting that the outcome would have been any different? Kimi would still have spun after passing the Williams, and would still have stuffed it in the wall. Neither of these events were related to Hamilton - on the first Kimi was in front, on the second Lewis was in front. Frankly the events that happened after the pass dictated the result we saw, not the pass itself.

quote:
Let the flames commence...


No flames - just my opinion of your opinion.

craig1410 - 7/9/08 at 05:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by russbost
How can you possibly gain an advantage by dropping behind somebody!!!!!
I expect it was Lewis's fault Kimi crashed for making him drive too fast, in future he should learn some humility & just drive behind the red cars as he clearly isn't going to be allowed to win the championship anyway!!

[Edited on 7/9/08 by russbost]


Easily - by picking up the slipstream which you had no right to be anywhere near due to cutting the chicane. Normally you only pick up a slipstream by driving better then the guy in front in the preceding few corners but in hamilton's case he picked up the slipstream by cutting the corner and then backing off just enough for Kimi to get past before picking up the slingshot round the back and re-overtaking.

Whatever way you look at it, he took advantage of cutting the chicane. What would have happened if the edge of the track was lined with armco rather than grass? He would be out of the race! The whole point of run-off areas is that it encourages overtaking while preserving safety and makes it possible to continue racing if you have a failed attempt at overtaking. You are not supposed to gain an advantage from it!

Cheers,
Craig.

eddie99 - 7/9/08 at 05:21 PM

This is stupid, i hope Ron Dennis appeals against this, I agree with most of you, if ferrari had done this, it would have been fine.

How can be possibly get an advantage by letting him go through and then getting in his slipstream to overtake again, thats racing, not cheating! Ontop of that, the Ferrari overtook again as hamilton went wide, You cant blame Hamilton for the crash at all!

FIA sucks!

eddie99 - 7/9/08 at 05:22 PM

This is stupid, i hope Ron Dennis appeals against this, I agree with most of you, if ferrari had done this, it would have been fine.

How can be possibly get an advantage by letting him go through and then getting in his slipstream to overtake again, thats racing, not cheating! Ontop of that, the Ferrari overtook again as hamilton went wide, You cant blame Hamilton for the crash at all!

FIA sucks!

eddie99 - 7/9/08 at 05:23 PM

This is stupid, i hope Ron Dennis appeals against this, I agree with most of you, if ferrari had done this, it would have been fine.

How can be possibly get an advantage by letting him go through and then getting in his slipstream to overtake again, thats racing, not cheating! Ontop of that, the Ferrari overtook again as hamilton went wide, You cant blame Hamilton for the crash at all!

FIA sucks!

craig1410 - 7/9/08 at 05:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JUD
quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
I know I won't make many friends by saying this but until Hamilton learns some humility I don't think he deserves to win a championship. He's had everything laid out on a silver platter from day one and hasn't had to work for it like everyone else.


How is that then? I don't get the "handed to him on a plate" line. Ron signed him up years ago and he has been successful at the majority of the formula he has competed in. He is better than his team mate and was better than Alonso last year.

quote:
I like Kimi as a raw talent (and party animal...)


Ah - Party animal - that makes him more interesting and hence more worthy of stewards decisions...?


quote:
As for the penalty handed to hamilton I think it is correct as he clearly gained an advantage in retaining momentum by cutting out the chicane. He may well have let Kimi past but immediately ducked through his slipstream and attacked again. He should have backed off until after the next corner before attacking.


Assuming that he had done that, are you suggesting that the outcome would have been any different? Kimi would still have spun after passing the Williams, and would still have stuffed it in the wall. Neither of these events were related to Hamilton - on the first Kimi was in front, on the second Lewis was in front. Frankly the events that happened after the pass dictated the result we saw, not the pass itself.

quote:
Let the flames commence...


No flames - just my opinion of your opinion.


I respect your opinion but...

Hamilton walked into a good car which was made considerably better by Alonso who is well known to be good at car development. He then let his ego get the better of him when he would have been better off learning from Fernando in his rookie year. He was certainly not better than Fernando when you consider that they ended up with the same point despite Fernando having virtually no support from the team towards the end.

Your argument that Kimi would have spun anyway is nonsense (sorry) because the whole chain of events would have been completely different if hamilton had not re-overtaken Kimi. Maybe Kimi would have driven straight into the Williams, who knows, but events would have certainly been different.

I only wish that Alonso had gone in with 2 laps to go and put on a new pair of inter's. He would then have beaten them all and got a well deserved victory!

Cheers,
Craig.

CRAIGR - 7/9/08 at 05:25 PM

This thread is better than the race itself. Come on you reds

[Edited on 7/9/08 by CRAIGR]

cjtheman - 7/9/08 at 05:53 PM

Lewis Hamilton has had his Belgian Grand Prix victory overturned by the STEWARDS, handing the win to title rival Felipe Massa, who finished second on the road.

my view is that they felt (the stewards) and not the big wigs of the fia decided to do what they done he could have stood on the brakes hamilton didnt need to cut the track
what if there was a steward on track helping another driver it could have been fatal just to try and gain from it
cheers
colin

come on you reds lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

matnrach - 7/9/08 at 06:01 PM

Who do the stewards work for?
Now let me think....

RickRick - 7/9/08 at 06:02 PM

in my view hamilton had the inside into the next corner, and would have made it stick, if rikonen hadn't hit him, that left hamilton with a choice, carry on and t bone kimi, or cut the corner, either way he was close enough to make a justified move, wether it came off or not, so the fact that he slowed enough to let kimi back past, then would have to pick up speed to match him seems more than fair to me, then to rub salt into the wound kimi went and rammed hamiltons rear tyre on the very next corner. add to that the fact that kimi binned it, totaly off his own back, after a couple more place swaps between the 2, and i dont see why there even thinking about it.

i'm not a hamilton fan, i just like the racing, whoever wins, i just hate when the fia stick there orr in when it's not needed, and it does seem to be red car biased. i won't be watching anymore

RickRick - 7/9/08 at 06:14 PM

also email here if your p!ssed

fia@ferrari.it

Mark Allanson - 7/9/08 at 07:03 PM

I wouldn't have thought it would made any difference, I think a bit of 'Jesse Owens Syndrome' Adolph Moseley cannot stand the thought of a 'negro boy' winning the championship.

Probably the last F1 race I will watch

Sad

l0rd - 7/9/08 at 07:21 PM

Please try to find and read the rules before you judge the stewarts decision. I believe, that the finish line being that close to the incident, may have played a part in this. If i remember correctly, if you gain an advantage like Hammilton did, you should let the car overtake you before the end of the lap which was 200ft away?

akrallysport - 7/9/08 at 07:32 PM

I won't pass judgement until I see the incident on replay, but I am about cross Formula 1 off my 'to-watch' list. I've been following it since the age of 3 (so, 22 years) and I must say, MotoGP, ALMS/LMS, WTCC, BTCC has much better racing and less BS.

matnrach - 7/9/08 at 07:57 PM

The FIA put a new rule in at the start of the year to allow a 'free' engine change (no doubt due to pressure by Ferrari as they had less confidence in their engine's reliability which has since been bourn out)
Ferrari have used these up now so they have to gain advantages any other way possible.
What with the Massa incident in Valencia (not to mention the spying fiasco - no don't mention that!) which they got off Scott free, it is just becoming a sham.

russbost - 8/9/08 at 07:36 AM

"Easily - by picking up the slipstream which you had no right to be anywhere near due to cutting the chicane. Normally you only pick up a slipstream by driving better then the guy in front in the preceding few corners but in hamilton's case he picked up the slipstream by cutting the corner and then backing off just enough for Kimi to get past before picking up the slingshot round the back and re-overtaking. "

No right to be anywhere near????
He'd been in Kimi's slipstream for the past 3 corners. I wish people would base their opinions on facts & not fantasy.
I would also point out - again, as it seems to have escaped a lot of peoples notice, that Hamilton most definately gave the place back b4 the end of the lap - there is nothing in the ruling which mentions slipstreaming. Maybe we should just ban anyone with more than a light suntan from racing in F1 - Mad Max is the son of a Nazi blackshirt after all.

smart51 - 8/9/08 at 07:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
Please try to find and read the rules before you judge the stewarts decision. I believe, that the finish line being that close to the incident, may have played a part in this. If i remember correctly, if you gain an advantage like Hammilton did, you should let the car overtake you before the end of the lap which was 200ft away?


He did.

craig1410 - 8/9/08 at 01:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by russbost
"Easily - by picking up the slipstream which you had no right to be anywhere near due to cutting the chicane. Normally you only pick up a slipstream by driving better then the guy in front in the preceding few corners but in hamilton's case he picked up the slipstream by cutting the corner and then backing off just enough for Kimi to get past before picking up the slingshot round the back and re-overtaking. "

No right to be anywhere near????
He'd been in Kimi's slipstream for the past 3 corners. I wish people would base their opinions on facts & not fantasy.
I would also point out - again, as it seems to have escaped a lot of peoples notice, that Hamilton most definately gave the place back b4 the end of the lap - there is nothing in the ruling which mentions slipstreaming. Maybe we should just ban anyone with more than a light suntan from racing in F1 - Mad Max is the son of a Nazi blackshirt after all.


No need to get mad, I'm only expressing my opinion which is just as valid as yours...

My point is that if he had attempted to go round the chicane instead of driving over it he would not have been close enough to Kimi to gain a slipstream. He should have aborted his original overtake because he didn't have the line into the corner.

In short, he took advantage of cutting the chicane - end of! IMHO of course...

Alan B - 8/9/08 at 01:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
......My point is that if he had attempted to go round the chicane instead of driving over it he would not have been close enough to Kimi to gain a slipstream. He should have aborted his original overtake because he didn't have the line into the corner.

In short, he took advantage of cutting the chicane - end of! IMHO of course...


Ok Craig, for the sake of arguement let's say he did, overall, gain some advantage..I believe he did what he thought was correct and fair by letting KR back in front.....if it is judged that he did not give back enough of the perceived and I believe unintentional advantage then how about a 5 second penalty?...which would be seen to be taking action, yet not affect the outcome, which the whole episode clearly didn't....

JoelP - 8/9/08 at 02:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
He should have aborted his original overtake because he didn't have the line into the corner.


Are you saying lewis would've left the track even if kimi hadnt closed the door on him? As far as i can see, he drove a line into the chicane that left him on track and nearly level with kimi. Kimi closed the door and he left the track to avoid a collision. Had the two collided it would've been a racing incident with neither to blame, as its really just a case of calling each others bluff and neither giving in. However lewis backed down and took a shortcut, and also the lead. He did clearly go behind kimi after that point. I cant see what he did wrong really, there was no advantage gained. If he hadn't tried to pass there then he would've still been on kimis rear wing.

MikeRJ - 8/9/08 at 02:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cjtheman
what if there was a steward on track helping another driver it could have been fatal just to try and gain from it


Then that would be gross negligence. You don't hang around in a run off area whilst the race is still on, this is what the safety car is for.

Run off areas are their to improve safety if a car comes off the track. LH chose to use it to avoid a collision and then gave back the advantage that using it gained him. The result was the the positions were unchanged before they had reached the start-finish line.