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steel con rods
jtskips - 28/10/15 at 07:36 PM

has any one been brave enough to buy some steel con rods from hong kong , looking for some 2.3 duratec , got williams rods in a 2.0 ,was looking for the type with the tab cut out to help stop the shell from spinning , john

MikeRJ - 28/10/15 at 08:17 PM

Note that the tab won't stop the bearings spinning if they pick up on the crank. Plenty of modern engines no longer use them.

blakep82 - 28/10/15 at 08:49 PM

Personally, I wouldn't. I'd buy known brands from known suppliers who you can go back to if there's any issues
If one ends up bent, do you really want to strip the whole engine back down again?

Nickp - 28/10/15 at 09:24 PM

I put a set of Chinese 'Maxspeeding' rods in my Fiat/Lancia twin cam. I measured all their tolerance, centre to centre length, size and roundness of bearing journal, weight etc and they were spot on. They came with ARP bolts, which was nice. The finish on them wasn't perfect but was acceptable, and does that really matter? The engine went on to make 194bhp up towards 7krpm and was still pulling hard as it hit the 7.5krpm limiter. Can't vouch for longevity as it'd still done relatively few miles when I sold it the other week.
Oh, and they cost about £200 instead of near on £1k for 'named' brand ones!!

[Edited on 28/10/15 by Nickp]

Shooter63 - 28/10/15 at 09:27 PM

Apart from farndon and arrow, I think most of the rods come from the Far East, I was told by a respected engine builder that there was nothing wrong with them, the ones I have for my zetec have eagle marked on them and are used in top end turbo set ups ( rated up to 600bhp) and will run to 8000rpm ( the max safe rpm for a wet sump zetec)


Shooter

coyoteboy - 29/10/15 at 12:23 AM

I'd use them if they seemed quality. What annoys me is when china sells a billet steel crankas an upgrade when the factory crank is a forged item (3sgte) or when they quote nonsense figures to aid selling.

Paul Turner - 29/10/15 at 07:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
The finish on them wasn't perfect but was acceptable, and does that really matter?


Yes it does matter.

If I bought a set of steel rods and there were defects on them they would go strait back. Cracks can propagate from defects on any component. If you are getting a shoddy finish I would question if the component is actually any good at all.

I had Farndon steel rods on a Farndon steel crank in a x-flow and regularly took it to 8500 rpm, on one occasion 9500 rpm. I never had to worry if they were any good because they are amongst the best.

Why spend money on a steel bottom end possibly made of cheese.

[Edited on 29/10/15 by Paul Turner]

Nickp - 29/10/15 at 08:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
quote:
Originally posted by Nickp
The finish on them wasn't perfect but was acceptable, and does that really matter?


Yes it does matter.

If I bought a set of steel rods and there were defects on them they would go strait back. Cracks can propagate from defects on any component. If you are getting a shoddy finish I would question if the component is actually any good at all.

I had Farndon steel rods on a Farndon steel crank in a x-flow and regularly took it to 8500 rpm, on one occasion 9500 rpm. I never had to worry if they were any good because they are amongst the best.

Why spend money on a steel bottom end possibly made of cheese.

[Edited on 29/10/15 by Paul Turner]


The finish wasn't that bad and I don't expect them to crack anytime soon, I just thought I'd point it out. If I'd paid £1000 for them, which I was never going to do btw, then I'd expect perfection. It was either try these or put the 40+yr old unknown mileage ones back in. I made my choice as should everyone else

jtskips - 29/10/15 at 11:00 PM

Was hoping for a few horror stories , o dear should i be the locost builders duratec guinea pig ,thanks for your posts , john

Nickp - 30/10/15 at 05:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jtskips
Was hoping for a few horror stories , o dear should i be the locost builders duratec guinea pig ,thanks for your posts , john


Personally I wouldn't hesitate to use them again and may well do in my BMW M52 engine if I can get some cams to justify them. However, do check all the tolerances carefully before installation. If you can't do it yourself then any decent engineering firm should be able to if you give them the data. I used an expensive digital bore gauge to check the journals (torqued up) and they were all spot on.

These look like the Duratec version of what I used, but they seem to be out of stock, so must be popular

http://www.maxspeedingrods.co.uk/high-performance-ford-duratec-2-0-mazda-mzr-2-0-4340-en24-chrome-moly-forged-h-beam-connecting-rods-conrod-with-arp-b olts-x4pcs.html

Good luck

blakep82 - 30/10/15 at 06:24 AM

And everyone wonders why our industry is going to crap


[Edited on 30/10/15 by blakep82]

AntonUK - 30/10/15 at 01:25 PM

A mate has bought a set for his classic mini. We did loads of searching for horror stories but found very little to say they were bad.

The only thing we could find was people saying no because they were Chinese. With no evidence to back it up. Which imo isn't that scientific.

Paul Turner - 30/10/15 at 02:16 PM

The Chinese can produce products as good as the best but unless there is quality control present like all countries they can produce a load of tat. When I see a set of steel rods for £200 instead of the more normal £1000 alarm bells start to ring. Anything you buy cheap is cheap for a reason, its not that the seller is doing you a favour.

Steel rods are fitted along with other components to make an engine stronger and more reliable. Putting in a product that is second rate is a waste of time.

You only want to do this work once so buy the real products. And remember, it it all goes wrong its not going to be just the rods that need sorting.

For the record I have only had one set of steel rods, Farndon's in a X-Flow stroker. All my other engines have had OEM rods that in some cases have been polished but in most cases just balanced along with the pistons etc. Using revs much higher than the manufacturers max (used to use 7800 on a x-flow) I have never had an issue.

So unless you are building something really special they are not really needed, if you really need them you need the best.

jtskips - 30/10/15 at 03:38 PM

Its just that i am using accralite high comp pistons and the Gudgeon pin is to wide for the standard rod ,so i have no option , just in case i will hang on to the 2.0 engine for a back up,

Nickp - 30/10/15 at 04:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Turner
The Chinese can produce products as good as the best but unless there is quality control present like all countries they can produce a load of tat.


Exactly why I suggest you do your own quality control If you get a good set then everyone's a winner, except British industry of course.

minibull - 31/10/15 at 02:28 AM

Never used Chinese rods, however most internet posts by those who have are favourable. As a previous poster has said get them checked properly prior to fitting. Another poster makes the point things are cheaper for a reason. Of course when labour and materials are vastly cheaper, and you are not inflating price to prove you are selling a premium product that reason doesn't necessarily equate to inferior.

ian996 - 31/10/15 at 04:36 PM

There are posts on other forums where people have bought something like eagle and got carillo. I don't remember exact details but the reason was they were all made in the same factory so only the name on the box was different.

I've also heard some companies just buy the forgings and do the machining in house. Some do now make their own, Brian Crower do despite having a budget background, not to be confused with Crower though.

All in all, is a bit of a minefield, your as foolish buying cheap as you are the most expensive, just make sure you check them and be sure what you put in your engine you are happy with.

coyoteboy - 3/11/15 at 12:25 PM

Made in the same factory does not mean equal quality, similar standards or any other saving grace.

Often the cheap sources buy the seconds from the good quality ones made in the same factory.

ian996 - 3/11/15 at 02:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Made in the same factory does not mean equal quality, similar standards or any other saving grace.

Often the cheap sources buy the seconds from the good quality ones made in the same factory.


Big assumptions there.

Check on the net, plenty of info out there. One guy got Carillo or another big brand rods in an Eagle/Pauter box whatever it was, but the reason why was the factory made the same rods, just boxed the wrong ones.

Its like Bosch Porsche parts - I bought a Bosh Lambda from eurparts for 120 quid, the same part from Porsche was 260 quid. I had people at the time telling me it was a Bosh "seconds", smells like male cow excrement to me.

Just like the brake discs - you can buy them with the porsche parts numbers ground off - made in the same factory...