Someone please settle this for me.
New engine in car (thankyou iceman its very nice)
All connected but it wont start. Turns over, has oil water petrol. Have checked battery registers fine, even gave a boost and attempted a jump start.
Can turn over by hand. On ignition turns over very slowly. Everything else seems ok.
Had starter motor tested ooo 2 months ago maybe and they said it was fine. I reckon its not or at least its needs a recondition as may be working but
not giving out enough power! My dad (not as enthusiatic about the kit filling his garage) reckons sumet else is wrong and i should pay for an auto
electrician to come out (yeah right)
So please anyone who has ideas about why it could not be working let me know?
p.s. starter motor going in for test/recon/replacement tomorrow (different place from first time)
EDIT :- CHecked the starer connection too its fine and well earthed
[Edited on 5/4/06 by AlexS]
if it turns over its not your starter motor
check for a spark first then go from there.
or try bumping it.
[Edited on 5/4/06 by k33ts]
Bad Earth on the enginestarter?
Any gas engine should start or attempt to start if the following conditios are present and correct.
1,Spark
2,Fuel
3,Compression
This of course assumes mundane stuff like spark plugs and fuel are servicable (fuel is not stale) and the timing is set somewhere before TDC.
that the fuel mixture must also be in his limits....
sow not to rich and not to lean.
Always make sure you have a spark its the first thing what a mec. checks if a engine donīt starts.
He also does this to be sure he doesnīt flood the engine, because once in this scenario its difficult to check if a change helps..
I would say..check spark.
and clean sparkplugs / or replace since they are cheap.
Tks
Cleaned the sparks before they went and gapped them properly. Altho the engine is turning over is very slowly, a bit like the batteries dead (except
its fully charged) Ive checked the earths and theyre fine
it could be the timing as if that is out it can have the effect of turning the engine over very slowly as if the battery is flat or a dodgy starter motor
timing 180 degrees out.
quote:
Originally posted by tim windmill
it could be the timing as if that is out it can have the effect of turning the engine over very slowly as if the battery is flat or a dodgy starter motor
If it is turning over slowly, try connecting jumper leads (from a good battery) directly to the starter terminals to eliminate any dodgy earth
connections. If it still spins slowly then my money is on the starter
If using conventional ignition, also check low voltage from coil to dizzy.
When you say you have checked the earth to the engine have you checked it with a multi meter or checked to make sure there is an earth wire? If the
former you could be earthing through the throttle cable or something like that.
I would run an earth wire directly from the battery to the engine to make sure of the good earth for starting.
Agreed - get a jump lead (or some other heavy cable) and connect the battery negative to the starter casing (e.g. a mounting bolt) and then try to
start the engine.
DJ
ive had a problem with slow starting before, turned out to be timing was a mile out. I re-timed it all up to TDC and it fired up, then tweaked it from
there.
My initial problem with starting was plug leads on wrong way round, but that gave me back fires etc.
Firstly go back to first principles and check everything is right.
Is it worth taking the plugs out, disconnecting the coil and giving it a spin?
If it still churns over then there's something wrong in the starter area. If it spins over rapidly then timing is a possibility.
DJ
quote:
Originally posted by DarrenW
ive had a problem with slow starting before, turned out to be timing was a mile out. I re-timed it all up to TDC and it fired up, then tweaked it from there.
My initial problem with starting was plug leads on wrong way round, but that gave me back fires etc.
Firstly go back to first principles and check everything is right.
Will try the ideas for the earth ( i did use a multimeter to check) adn the coil and let you know how it goes, cheers
Ive had a slow turning over problem on another car before, cured by fitting new bigger earth leads between battery and chassis and engine to chassis
(got them made up by fork truck bay at factory i used to work at). This made a big difference.
Ive seen that Halfrauds sell new leads off the shelf.
Just be aware that a multimeter won't show an earth that's bad enough to slow a starter (if you see what I mean).
You can apply Ohm's Law:
Volts = Amperes x Ohms
If the starter's taking 100 Amps (very low estimate!) and the resistance of your earth connection is 0.1 Ohm, you've just lost 10 volts!
Not many ordinary multimeters are good for the low resistances involved.
Sorry if you know all this already...
David
No i didnt DJ
Have just discovered the timing was 180 out (set to front piston not back!) so setting that right
Recond starter fitted sounded slightly healthier bt not enough. Going back to fit the rocker box and retry, failing that will try the jump lead idea
to make sure earth and power ok. Then if still no luck it between the coil or the solanoid...
Al
okies timing didnt help, ran an earth from the engine and that sped things up a bit but not enough to say it was about to start. New problem is fuel
pipe has decided to squirt petrol across the garage when under pressure!!!!!!!! 
So tomorrow out to get new coil and solanoid (sod it replaced everything else on the engine) and new/bigger/more earthing wires and a new fuel line to
the carbs!cant go wrong then ive tried everything!
What engine do you have? If it's a newly reconditioned unit it may be a bit on the tight side and if tuned compression may be a bit high? A tip I read about in CCC years ago was to use a starter from an automatic version of your engine which often have more power, may not help now . If after checking all the basics you still have no luck try towing the car to get it running. Once run it may well loosen up. Best of luck
Yes 500miles or so since recon, but can turn over by hand so cant be that stiff. Its a 1660 xflow
tbh im pretty much outta ideas...banned from working on it till tuesday cos the missus has plans will nip to garage tomorrow and get all the bits i
can then im set to go then. If it doesnt work after ive done that then im really screwed
Where abouts are you? There may be someone in your area that can help. May also help to know what work you have done on the engine .Things like has distributor been out? carb/manifold off ? Wiring work? have you got the correct starter fitted? Xflow engine could be fitted with an inertia or pre engaged starters which have different ring gears with different number of teeth that could cause slow turning over? There is a chamfer on the edge of the ring gear teeth, which side of the ring gear is it? inertia type will be on the back (clutch side ) pre engaged will be on the front nearest to starter
Ive done nothing personally to the engine. bought from locost forum
1660cc
rebored to +0.040"
high comp ae pistons
crank shaft re ground
new kent bcf2 fast road
burman high pressure oil pump
new water pump
Distributor is from my old xflow and is timed ok and in good condition
manifold came from old xflow too as did the 32/36 carbs, didnt mess with them, just unscrewed the manifold from old one and attached to the new.
No wiring work changed, just all had a check through but new earths to go in soon.
Not a clue about the starter will check if other solutions dont work but took old one into shop and swapped for identical reconditioned starter (which
used to work fine in the old xflow)
Edit - Im in south manchester, sale area but we'll worry bout that if i get reeeally stuck
[Edited on 6/4/06 by AlexS]
lets put every detail in a row.
- You have got a spark at every lead?
- Your sparks(4) are getting wet?
- Your fireing order is correct? how did you verify?
- Your engine turnssweetover without any sparkplugs in it?
- Your engine turns sweet over while starting it withoutplugs???
Rpm reading??? (don't do this for allot of time) and clean the head//spark plug hole good!!
- You have used an powerfull battery c.q.
- You have an good earth to the block...
- the battery and coil power are very very important because:
- it costs more coil power to spark a sparkplug wich is :
- cold
- running rich of fuel mixture
- low voltage reading
- high rpm
The engine should do something! if there gets petrol in and a spark?
Movi?
Regards,
Tks
[Edited on 6/4/06 by tks]
quote:
Originally posted by tks
lets put every detail in a row.
- You have got a spark at every lead? Yes
- Your sparks(4) are getting wet? No - especially as in garage
- Your fireing order is correct? how did you verify? - yes set timing, first to cylinder nearest to front, then realised first spark is to rear cylinder, so changed timing to suit using tdc and set dizzy to 11 o clock as per differnet thread in forum
- Your engine turnssweetover without any sparkplugs in it? turns over by hand and new starter but not tested with no plugs in
- Your engine turns sweet over while starting it withoutplugs???
Rpm reading??? (don't do this for allot of time) and clean the head//spark plug hole good!! cleaned all that. no rpm as not turning over anything like fast enuf to register.
- You have used an powerfull battery c.q. yes nice big battery bought end of last year and fully charged
- You have an good earth to the block... improved turnover speed with another earth direct from starter to chasis (using jump lead) so will fit new/more/bigger earths but still did not get upto proper speed with extra earth
- the battery and coil power are very very important because:
- it costs more coil power to spark a sparkplug wich is :
- cold
- running rich of fuel mixture
- low voltage reading
- high rpm
The engine should do something! if there gets petrol in and a spark? it should yes but it isnt turning fast enough to start. and the fuel line having a leak meant a slight reduction in fuel. new line alos on the to do list before i try again
Movi?
Regards,
Tks
[Edited on 6/4/06 by tks]
Its easy,
If you try to start the engine without plugs and the startermotor don't spins like the vacuum cleaner!
and you hear a very hard noise like a big pump or something than you just haven't got rpm on the crank.
With no rpm on the crank the engine doesn't suck in any air ==> no fuel 2!
Sow you have a problem with your starter motor.
is it possible you burned it? cranking very much time after each other??
the engine should read 700rpm with no plugs in easyly...
sow your problem lies for me in the starter motor or the starter motor relais!
How are the wires to that relais?
Did you try to touch with the 2 leads directly the starter motor? does it spin??
Tks
the only thing
you could try is the good old
squirt your self into the cilinde rholes
a very small amount of fuel per sprakplug.
and fit back the sparkplugs ..
and try to start,
it should do something,
if it does its a healthy sing.
next step is to also put an bit in the manifold... sow it doesn't need your carbs that much..
did you drain the old fuel of that?
normally a engine cranking should get wet plugs..
sow try to start with fuel in the manifold and wiht an bit of it in the holes...
with a bit of luckit will start....
while cranking the rpm reader should bounce between the 0 and the 1000rpm...
wiht out plugs it should spin very fast..
do you think that fitting the starter you could have managed to press the pinon onto the crankring of the flywheel? in that way creating allot of
resistance for the engine(read startermotor)??
try the fuel direct in the hole!, it always works also with cars that has stand for a time
the problem is also fuel sow spray it in and crank and tellus what it did..
Tks
[Edited on 6/4/06 by tks]
Ive only scanned thru very quickly and seen timing mentioned, but if you still have the original symptoms, turns over very slowly then 9/10 times the timing is too far advanced, if you have not tried it, lossen the dizzy, turn the key and retard the timing whilst turning over, chances are it will turn over quicker and fire once retarded enough, sorry if its been suggested/tried, if not try it.
wow had to go back ages to find this, just an update, replaced few bits, cleaned the rest, set it all up and attached more earthing wires than i know
what to do with (and found a really good ford spares shop where the guy knows lots about ford engines which helped) anyway its now turning over at
speed and almost starting, but ud be rusty too if you hadnt run for months on end! just about to run some last checks on the sparks and tidy
everything up then looks like i finally have a car that goes 