OK so I've passed SVA and hopefully in a few weeks I'll have my age related plate for the 1.6 sierra doner.

So onto phase 2 which is the 205 block 2.0l I stored away which I planned to rebuild and upgrade.

However, as I cannot do any of the machining work myself I've costed it up and reckon on around £1,500 to do a half decent job.

That is around £750 for a new cam, larger valves, unleaded mods and porting and £750 for bore out to 2.1, lighten & balance the flywheel and generally refurb the bottom end.

It seems I may only see 150 bhp so the question is why?

For similar money I could probably pick up a zetec or similar and get more power, more up to date engineering and less weight.

The only downside I can see is modifying it to fit the Type 9 box.

Or am I missing something????

quote:

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Originally posted by pajsh
<snip>
The only downside I can see is modifying it to fit the Type 9 box.

Or am I missing something????

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i guess you would have to be a fan of the old pinto engine. Based on your figures, the zetec seems a much better choice, and a lot cheaper even allowing for stuff like new flywheels and starters etc.

I think the zetec would be a better choice.

Don't forget the exhaust is on the other side (compared with the Pinto)

i rebiult a pinto on my first build wished i never bothered noisy old heavy lumps and low on power.

The other major point to remember is that you will have to source an electronic ignition system for the Zetec at the very least.
There is no provision for a dstributor.
You would also need to go fuel Inj to release the sort of power figures you are talking (150 BHP)
This will definately involve you in at least £300 for a basic single throttle body and plenum setup with megasquirt. Up to £1000+ for an off the shelf package.
Not trying to put you off but you should consider all the options/facts before deciding.

quote:

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Originally posted by pajsh
OK so I've passed SVA and hopefully in a few weeks I'll have my age related plate for the 1.6 sierra doner.

So onto phase 2 which is the 205 block 2.0l I stored away which I planned to rebuild and upgrade.

However, as I cannot do any of the machining work myself I've costed it up and reckon on around £1,500 to do a half decent job.

That is around £750 for a new cam, larger valves, unleaded mods and porting and £750 for bore out to 2.1, lighten & balance the flywheel and generally refurb the bottom end.

It seems I may only see 150 bhp so the question is why?

For similar money I could probably pick up a zetec or similar and get more power, more up to date engineering and less weight.

The only downside I can see is modifying it to fit the Type 9 box.

Or am I missing something????

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get a BDA!

crackle, pop, bbbbbwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaa!

tom

I say go with the Zetec...easy 170 bhp on Webers/bike carbs, ignition is simple through John Ehrlich (altechprec@yahoo.com) with three wire connection with no mapping, etc. Zetec is light, with WAY more torque than any bike motor...remember, it's torque that gets you moving. And if you ever want to upgrade, Ford made a stock version that made 275 bhp!

quote:

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Originally posted by indykid
get a BDA!

crackle, pop, bbbbbwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaa!

tom

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if your going to bore the engine and rebuild it from the bottom upwards why not use cosworth parts? after all the 205 block is the some as sierra cosworth 2wd

id go zetec, or at least thats pob wat I will be doin!

Think your fuel tank might need a return line putting in as well.

I think your estimated machinig costs are way over the top. I was offered a rebore to 2.1 and skim the block for £80......

Also I know of 2.0l inj engines with nothing more than a cam change and twin 45 delortos which are producing around 150Bhp at the flywheel.

Don't discount the Pinto so easily...

No choice go Zetec, why use ancient technology get easy clean power.
Cheers
Ian

quote:

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Originally posted by zetec7
...... Zetec is light, with WAY more torque than any bike motor...remember, it's torque that gets you moving.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hellfire
Bike Engine power - That's what you're missing. More power, cutting edge technology and considerably less weight. Even has it's own gearbox incorporated into the engine.

Phil

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But why would you want to go backwards??

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Originally posted by Hellfire
But why would you want to go backwards??

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I've done about 7000 road miles no with no reverse, I have no plans to fit a reverse box, as it's simply not needed if you're careful where you park.
The thing weighs about the same as a go-kart anyhow so pushing it is a piece of p*ss!

I'd love to see you push it out of my driveway if it weighs more than about 100kg!

Lack of reverse also rules out any autotesting which is a sport where the Locost can excel.

I thought about all that when I got my pinto donor.

I dumped the pinto thinking bike engine would be the best, however since then I've decided on a 1.8 zetec with bike carbs and megajolt. Fairly cheap and dead easy to set up.

I expect 155bhp without much work. The amount of cash to be spent on a pinto to get it to 150bhp can see a zetec up to 200bhp.

raining now and cold,
Steve

it's been said so many times before that i'm not quite sure why it's being debated.

if you have a cec, it's not going to make economical sense to convert it to bec. the engine bay will need modification, it'll need a plate in the transmission tunnel for a centre bearing, it'll need a new prop, prop adapter, shift linkage etc etc etc. you're better off starting new.

you've no chance for bec for £1500, so it pretty much looks like zetec, but imo, your budget will be tight for that conversion too.
tom

Seems like noone has really jumped to defend the old pinto so looks like Zetec it is.

I did consider BEC but I think it would be best from scratch. I'm still undecided about the longevity of something that's designed for pulling around 250Kg having to drag 600Kg.

What I was trying to get at was why and I think that has been answered.

Maybe one of the vintage rally or F2 stock boys might offer me something for my 205 and twin delloto's.

205 engine shouldn't need modifying for unleaded, by the way and the valves are big enough for anything you need.

nothing wrong with the pinto, bit on the heavy side admitidley i would have another look at your machining costs they do seem a bit over the top..

To start with not many becs weigh 600kg,

secondly, a bike engine is used for 250kg, but it is also geared for about 160-180mph, becs are geared for around 100-135mph depending on power thus puting the engine under no more strain than in a bike

Sorry still not convinced about the longevity of BEC.

First my 600Kg was based on 500Kg ish car plus 75Kg driver. It was noted on here some time ago less than 500Kg is expensive. A bike would be normally 150Kg plus rider at 75Kg. However you look at it it's still twice the weight.

It may be geared for 150 mph but rarely sees that where as in a car it would regularly see 75 mph plus.

Also there is a small matter of aerodynamics. A bike is 1/3rd the width of a car and streamlined. A seven has the aerodynamics of a barn door.

I think bec's look great fun and are impressive but I'm still think the engines are going to suffer prematurely.

Not a problem if you can afford and expect it but I think it's something to factor into the debate.

quote:

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Originally posted by MikeRJ
I'd love to see you push it out of my driveway if it weighs more than about 100kg!

Lack of reverse also rules out any autotesting which is a sport where the Locost can excel.

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Just to give you an idea of mahining etc, i researched pinto rebuilding. Local firm in Northallerton gave me some ideas. They favour 2.0l and match block to head to give desired compression ratio etc. Have had very good results (ask Mookaloid). They can do 2.1 conversion but extra costs are not always economical.
All plus VAT and self assembly

Cyl head porting approx £200.
Head rebuilt with new valves, guides etc approx £120.
FR33 kit approx £220.
Bottom end bore & hone, new pistons, shaft grin, new big ends, fully balanced, lightened flywheel approx £520. Not sure if tis includes the block decking.
you will also need gaskets, pumps, bolts etc.
if engine is in good nick to start with you may not need pistons. This work has been shown to give around 150bhp at the wheels depending on final tune and fuel system etc. Carb and exhaust costs not included here as you will need them no matter which way you finally go.


Its up to you at the end of the day. If you already have pinto and ancills etc its worth considering.

I still need the carbs tuning on the RR and a better ignition curve and I'm holding it back 1000RPM from the redline and I still kept up with a VX220 Turbo last night (0-60 in 4.7) so I wouldn't worry about Pinto's not being able to cut the mustard!

If your bottom end is in good condition just get a hone and fit new rings. Fit heavy duty bearings, ARP rod bolts and a high capacity/pressure oil pump. This will give you a reliable 7K RPM bottom end for a couple of hundred.

Get a very good port and polish, this is more important than big valves if your budget is a tight. Coupled with a Piper 285 cam, increased compression and bike carbs you'll be on the good side of 150BHP with ease.

I almost torn my Type9 box and diff in 1/2 in 1000miles with the power my Pinto is making.

With regards reverse:- I was sitting at traffic lights behind a MPV the other day and a lorry was having difficaulty crossing the junction. The MPV decided to reverse back to let him past but didn't look / didn't see me. The was no one behind so I stuck it in reverse and lit the tyres to just avoid a collision. Now I wouldn't even consider having a car without reverse...

[Edited on 7/7/06 by andyharding]

In defence of the pinto. They are nicknamed boat anchors, ok so boat have anchors they are generally big and heavy, but consider this. When a boat sinks, and inevitably they do, then after a period of time there is generally not a lot left. Apart from its anchors. The moral of this is that they tend to go on and on and on & on & on....................... .
If a cambelt breaks on a pinto you replace the belt. If a cambelt breaks on a Zetec ............ .

Ultimately the choice of engine that you use MUST be your choice. Personally I hope that the information that you have recieved here helps you to make that choice.

Oh yes, just changed my Taxi to a Mondeo 1.8 and after a week its burnt a valve. When the head was removed we found a piston has slight damage. New piston £85

andyharding - whats been done to your pinto and what sort of power are you putting out?

quote:

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Originally posted by Toady1
andyharding - whats been done to your pinto and what sort of power are you putting out?

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ah yeah i remember now replying to that thread! looks a nice motor mate! did you do all the work inc head gas flowing yourself? where did you get the r1 inlet manifold from? make me want to tune mine seeing as its got a fresh bottom end!

I assembled it although I paid a mate to do the actual porting as the Pinto heads are very hard and I couldn't spare the time as I was busy with other things.

The manifold is from Bogg Bros www.boggbros.co.uk

quote:

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Originally posted by pajsh
I did consider BEC but I think it would be best from scratch. I'm still undecided about the longevity of something that's designed for pulling around 250Kg having to drag 600Kg.

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