RazMan
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 posted on 18/6/06 at 10:02 PM |
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V6 Duratec starting probs
I reached that huge milestone in the build - the 'let's see if she starts' day.
Duratec V6 with MBE ECU but otherwise bog standard. Everything connected, 2 gallons of fuel in the twin tanks, turned the key .......... lots of
starter motor noises but nothing firing. Discovered that I had the fuel lines on the wrong way round (hey it's easily done innit) so swapped
them round and tried again.
Fart .... pop ..... bang bang pop.....
Checked the fuel return from the fuel regulator - practically nothing coming back to the tank - just a few drops!
Checked fuel pressure on feed side - 4.5 bar (Ford say it should be 2.7 max)
The regulator is apparently not kicking in at the right pressure so it could be the source of the problem.
Question - is too much fuel pressure going to stop things firing up?
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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DIY Si
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| posted on 18/6/06 at 10:27 PM |
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It could be holding the injectors closed. Or at least stopping them opening enough to allow sufficient fuel in.
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RazMan
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| posted on 18/6/06 at 10:32 PM |
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That's what I was thinking, but then I looked at FSE Powerboost valves and they state that the fuel pressure is increased by 1.7 times to
'reduce flat spots' That would mean that the pressure could be up to 4.5 bar vusing one of these gizmos.
I'm a tad confused .....
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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DIY Si
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| posted on 18/6/06 at 10:49 PM |
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If you turn the engine over does fuel come out of the return pipe at a reasonable rate at all? Or just a few drops regardless of what you do? Are the
plugs wet when pulled? Are you getting sparks? All the sensors in place, or moved but not put back correctly, ie the intake temp sensor?
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RazMan
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| posted on 18/6/06 at 10:55 PM |
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Fuel just dribbles out of the return regardless of what I do. Sometimes it will give a little gush when the pump primes (but not every time) The
pressure just stays at 4.5 bar the whole time so I guess that proves the pump is ok (Landy pump by the way)
All sensors are where they should be - the MBE just has an ambient sensor so nothing in the inlet tract at all.
Although I havent pulled a plug I assume I am getting sparks because of all the popping and banging that is going on.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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DIY Si
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| posted on 18/6/06 at 11:00 PM |
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Could the outlet for the fuel rail be blocked somehow? Would this cause any problems? Are the injectors known to be working? If they've been sat
for a while they could've become gummed up/jammed shut?
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RazMan
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| posted on 18/6/06 at 11:10 PM |
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Thanks for all the help Si - much appreciated.
The engine has been sitting in my chassis almost from the start of my 18 month build so I guess that the injectors might be a bit gummed up and
reluctant to get moving again. Maybe I should get them ultrasonically cleaned?
The feed and return pipes are clear to the regulator connections so no problems there.
The engine came out of a write off but was heard running before it was ripped out (70k on the clock)
As the regulator is definitely measuring too high pressure I will replace it anyway to be sure (but I am pondering about these 'power boost
valves' now) The injectors might free themselves up now that they are immersed in fuel or am I just wishful thinking?
[Edited on 18-6-06 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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trogdor
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| posted on 19/6/06 at 07:48 AM |
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there is an way to clean injectors that may help, but damn if i can remember it! i must of read about it on here or from a link on here so if anyone
knows what i am talking about please tell me!!
i think it involves dunking the injectors in a bath of injector cleaner stuff, but am not sure.
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Danozeman
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| posted on 19/6/06 at 08:08 AM |
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I would change the fuel reg and see what happens. If its standard and should be dumping at 2.7 theres gotta be a problem there.
Have u got the standard intake system on it? Has it got a filter on? A lot engines wont fire unless the filter is on giving a slight restriction in
air flow. As its aftermarket ecu this may not count but worth a try.
If the injectors are gummed up they will free off in the end. Take the plugs out and see if its shooting fuel out. It may even have just flooded
itself and wont get rid of it..
Are you sure the spark timing is right etc?
Dan
Built the purple peril!! Let the modifications begin!!
http://www.eastangliankitcars.co.uk
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RazMan
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| posted on 19/6/06 at 10:36 AM |
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I've now ordered an aftermarket fuel regulator (FSE Boost Valve) which should be with me tomorrow so at least I can eliminate fuel pressure
problems. It might give me a bit more power too if the sales blurb can be believed. 
I reckon the injectors are also a bit sticky due to the downtime of the engine, so maybe now that they have been soaking in fuel for a day or two,
they might kick in properly when I get to try it again - although I might take them out and give them a clean in some injector cleaner. I will check
the state of the (new) plugs while I'm at it and check the timing is about right. The MBE ecu is loaded with a base map which SHOULD give me a
starting point with a final setup on the rollers before sva. I know of at least one other V6 with this map which is currently running well.
btw - The filter was connected while I was trying to get it started so that's not an issue.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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DIY Si
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| posted on 19/6/06 at 10:50 AM |
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One way I heard of for checking injectors is to connect them directly across a battery. Sort of flick the power through them. This should make them
open. Not sure if this might damage the injectors, but others on here have done this with no problems.
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RazMan
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| posted on 19/6/06 at 11:06 AM |
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Hmmmm, I'm a bit reluctant to fiddle about with them too much. 6 new injectors would be quite expensive
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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NS Dev
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| posted on 19/6/06 at 11:58 AM |
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daft but surprisingly common problem is the regulator in the right way round?!?
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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RazMan
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| posted on 19/6/06 at 12:59 PM |
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In this case it is the type that sits on the fuel rail and bolts onto a casting - not an in-line one
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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jon_boy
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| posted on 19/6/06 at 08:39 PM |
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I think putting injectors striaght to a battery may melt them but thats only a guess. Im assuming a bowl of petrol and redex mixed up would be good to
clean them as its injector cleaner just try not to immerse the rubbers if theyre still on.
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saigonij
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| posted on 20/6/06 at 07:14 AM |
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if you take the regulator off, disconnect the coil connector and crank her over, does petrol come out the end of the fuel rail? if not, you have a
problem with the pump, or a blockage in the fuel rail, if petrol does come out, and it will come out at a rate of notts from a EFi pump, then its more
likely that its the regulator.
also, have you got any pictures of the engine in your kit, i was looking around but could not see any :-(
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RazMan
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| posted on 20/6/06 at 08:00 AM |
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As the fuel regulator was set too high there was very little flow from return feed - no blockages anywhere.
I'm fitting the new regulator later so hopefully I'll be able to post some good news then
Here's a pic of the engine in the rolling chassis ( it is in my archive)
[img][/img]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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NS Dev
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| posted on 21/6/06 at 11:45 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
In this case it is the type that sits on the fuel rail and bolts onto a casting - not an in-line one
......yea, and I know its teching you to suck eggs, but your feed is to the right "end" of the rail? (i.e. to the rail not the reg)
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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RazMan
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| posted on 21/6/06 at 02:11 PM |
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Funny you should say that 
I did have them on the wrong way round initially but quickly realised my error when I went to check the fuel pressure (how exactly do you suck eggs
anyway?)
New regulator fitted set at 3 bar as recommended by the ecu supplier. Still just getting opos & bangs although it did run (verry lumpy) for about
10 seconds.
I felt the header pipes and only pots 1,3 & 5 seem to be firing at all. Its starting to look like the fuel injectors.
I have just nabbed an ST200 manifold with injectors on eBay so I will swap these over when I get them next week.
Meanwhile I have rigged up the pc and loaded the diagnostic software, Easymap. All sensors appear to be working, injectors are pulsing (might be
blocked though) so it looks like my wiring is ok (phew)
I just called at my local injector specialist and got a quote of £120 to clean & test my injectors! 
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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