Catpuss
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 06:11 PM |
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Please don't tell me there is a load of paper stuck down the exhaust blocking it up, or on the inlets 
With no zorst system on you should get a bang or two, but if you are not getting that something is astray.
If Nbr 2 is OK then are zorst ports for 1,3,4 blocked? Or the inlets?
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smart51
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 07:16 PM |
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All the ports on the engine are free of the big paper towels that were stuffed in them for transport. no signs of residue or anything.
All the exhaust port towels were removed before fitting the exhaust. I can remember this clearly as I had a bit of fun removing the old exhaust
gaskets. Defo no paper.
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Coose
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 08:12 PM |
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Are you sure that you've got the coils wired correctly? When I first went to start mine I had 1&4 and 2&3 swapped.....
Spin 'er off Well...
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smart51
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| posted on 23/10/06 at 09:06 PM |
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1 to the sprocket end, 2 next to it, then 3, with 4 at the clutch end. The compression is still low, which I think to be the biggest symptom.
The bike shop guy said he's best off with the engine in his shop so they can take a look inside it. I'll carrry on stripping it out in
the morning and take it up there.
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smart51
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| posted on 24/10/06 at 11:39 AM |
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I've just delivered the engine back to the shop. The guy is quite sharp eyed and noticed that 2 of the exhaust ports had shiny bits at the top
of their valves. He got out a torch that was 3mm in diameter and looked into the holes and sure enough, the valves to No2 and No4 cylinders are open.
This is not a good thing. They're going to take a proper look at it and get back to me.
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Catpuss
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| posted on 24/10/06 at 04:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
I've just delivered the engine back to the shop. The guy is quite sharp eyed and noticed that 2 of the exhaust ports had shiny bits at the top
of their valves. He got out a torch that was 3mm in diameter and looked into the holes and sure enough, the valves to No2 and No4 cylinders are open.
This is not a good thing. They're going to take a proper look at it and get back to me.
If the cam lobes were down then that would normally be fine, but I wouldn't have expected 2 & 4 to be open at the same time as they
don't fire together.
If you are lucky its just gummed up sticking valves and nothing a quick lapping couldn't fix.
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Catpuss
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| posted on 25/10/06 at 07:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
I've just delivered the engine back to the shop. The guy is quite sharp eyed and noticed that 2 of the exhaust ports had shiny bits at the top
of their valves. He got out a torch that was 3mm in diameter and looked into the holes and sure enough, the valves to No2 and No4 cylinders are open.
This is not a good thing. They're going to take a proper look at it and get back to me.
Come on the suspense is killing me
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smart51
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| posted on 25/10/06 at 08:07 AM |
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The suspense is killing me too. The shop didn't get back to me yesterday and they are at a bike show today and tomorrow. More news as it
happens.
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Catpuss
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| posted on 27/10/06 at 06:43 PM |
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If they don't tell you soon I'm gonna burst
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ruskino80
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| posted on 27/10/06 at 09:58 PM |
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likewise-looks like it will be monday now though
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t.j.
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| posted on 28/10/06 at 07:08 AM |
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How long did this engine not run?
It could been caused by pollution on your valve's.
Are the valve's have hydraulic pushers?
Maybe the high oil-pressure opening valves due wrong oil.
This could cause open valves in some situations.
I hope there are no mechanical problems
Grtz Theo
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smart51
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| posted on 28/10/06 at 08:24 AM |
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Is this likely to be true?
I've spoken with the bike shop today. This is what they said:
They've soaked the bores in WD40 for a few days, then they put oil in the cylinders and did a compression test. 140 PSI in 3 cylinders but low
in the other. He spoke to an engine building friend of his who said it is piston rings gummed up in the piston grooved. The best way to fix it is to
refit the engine and tow it unit it starts. the heat from this will fix it.
This is beyond the limit of what I know but somehow it doesn't seem right. He asked how long it had been sat before he looked at it. It was
run on Saturday and it ran just fine. On the Friday it went to the shop to be looked at. It took them 4 weeks to get it back to me plus 1 day for me
to refit it. It wasn't sat around for long.
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se7ensport
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| posted on 28/10/06 at 09:31 AM |
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Doesn't sound quite right to me, think of it like this; if you left it stood for a month would you expect to have the same issues? no.
Alex
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Catpuss
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| posted on 28/10/06 at 12:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
I've spoken with the bike shop today. This is what they said:
They've soaked the bores in WD40 for a few days, then they put oil in the cylinders and did a compression test. 140 PSI in 3 cylinders but low
in the other. He spoke to an engine building friend of his who said it is piston rings gummed up in the piston grooved. The best way to fix it is to
refit the engine and tow it unit it starts. the heat from this will fix it.
Sounds like there was already a problem in the engine, just leaving it unused the disturbed by the work exhasperated a fault.
I can imagine with an R1 engine the piston rings getting gummed up with old oil under then and carbon deposits. The soaking in WD40 may well have
cleared some of this and could just fix the problem anyway. If the rings have got gummed up and stuck in the grooves they may well let gasses blow
past loosing compression.
Of course the WD40 may well knacker the oil in the engine and potentially have a degreasing effect parts like the little end bearing and cylinder
bores. I'd get an engine change for some good oil (don't flush with flushing oil to clear out the WD40 that can knacker bike engines). If
you really need to a quick flush through with normal bike oil can be done.
Check the valves too if the pistons are gummed the valves may need a quick clean & grind/polish off.
Towing it until it starts may well help, just saves on stress on the starter motor. Accelleration and decelleration will help as this works the rings
and may get them expanding out again.
If the budget is there it may well be worth having the bore honed and new rings to be safe. I don't know if all years of R1 engines are Nickasil
but they need a special honing tool (diamond surface IIRC) so make sure its a place that knows what they are doing and don't just bodge it.
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ruskino80
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| posted on 28/10/06 at 04:47 PM |
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christ the way this ones going you would have done better living with no 2nd gear!!!!-sounds like a fob off to me.
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JoelP
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| posted on 28/10/06 at 05:20 PM |
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did they not have any further comments about the issue with the exhaust valves being open?
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smart51
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| posted on 28/10/06 at 05:26 PM |
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I asked them about the exhaust valves on the phone and twice in person. They jsut said that the valve timing is fine and that they've been
through everything and it's all fine - just the piston seals. I don't feel that I know enough about engines to disbelieve them but I cant
bring myself to believe it.
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t.j.
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| posted on 28/10/06 at 07:11 PM |
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DID YOU get the engine where you payed for?
Looks like that you where listening to some other engine. In 4 weeks this could not happen!
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Coose
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| posted on 28/10/06 at 10:58 PM |
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It's quite feasible that the exhaust valves on 2 & 4 could be open at the same time, due to the firing order (1,3,4,2) and the valve
timing. The best thing to do there is to rotate the crank to see that they do close!
The crank has to stop somewhere, and inevitably some valves will be open.....
Regarding the rings 'suddenly' being gummed up, that's just bollocks! My engine was sat for three months before I started it, and
god knows how long it was sat before then!
It's quite possible that you've always had a cylinder down on compression, but just never realised. Saying that, you only just recently
got it through SVA, didn't you? Hmmmm.....
Spin 'er off Well...
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Catpuss
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| posted on 29/10/06 at 09:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Coose
It's quite feasible that the exhaust valves on 2 & 4 could be open at the same time, due to the firing order (1,3,4,2) and the valve
timing. The best thing to do there is to rotate the crank to see that they do close!
The crank has to stop somewhere, and inevitably some valves will be open.....
Regarding the rings 'suddenly' being gummed up, that's just bollocks! My engine was sat for three months before I started it, and
god knows how long it was sat before then!
It's quite possible that you've always had a cylinder down on compression, but just never realised. Saying that, you only just recently
got it through SVA, didn't you? Hmmmm.....
Yeah but the worrying thing is, if his tester was correct he has lost at least 90psi (as he was showing 50 and after squirting oil in they said it
was 140).
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Catpuss
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| posted on 29/10/06 at 09:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by smart51
I asked them about the exhaust valves on the phone and twice in person. They jsut said that the valve timing is fine and that they've been
through everything and it's all fine - just the piston seals. I don't feel that I know enough about engines to disbelieve them but I cant
bring myself to believe it.
I wouldn't be supprised if this problem has been there for a while with the engine and the rebuild was a co-incidence.
These days 2nd gear failing isn't as common as the bad old days and could be taken as a sign of general engine wear.
On a bike there is considerably less weight so you can afford to loose quite a bit of compression without the general Joe Bloggs rider even noticing.
This problem may well have been starting before you even bought the engine.
Compression being down across all cylinders does sound like wear. I assume you have either a) a dry sump or b) baffled sump or it could have been
slight oil starvation increasing bore wear + of course increased wear from the engine having to work harder to pull a heavier vehicle anyway.
<Hellfire Nemesis mode>
I'd rip out the engine and put a nice Pinto in there 
</H M m>
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Coose
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| posted on 29/10/06 at 11:02 AM |
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There's no such thing as a nice Pinto! 
2nd gear failure is very common in bike engines due to wheelies and cack-footed gearchanges. I've just replaced the first gear in one of my
bikes for this very reason!
Compression can't have been low on one cylinder until recently as the car has passed emmissions for the SVA recently - this would surely have
been evident during the SVA had it of always been like that. And I'd have thought that Smart would have noticed had it lost compression before
he took out the motor.
It just doesn't seem to add up. It's a shame you don't live closer as I would have offered to have a peek for you. I can't
think of anyone in your area who could have a look either.....
Spin 'er off Well...
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 29/10/06 at 12:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Coose
There's no such thing as a nice Pinto!
Yes there is, it's just that most people couldn't justify spending the money on one.
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Catpuss
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| posted on 29/10/06 at 12:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by Coose
There's no such thing as a nice Pinto!
Yes there is, it's just that most people couldn't justify spending the money on one.
Mine fooking aint anymore either
Fooking zorst studs. Oh well.
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smart51
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| posted on 29/10/06 at 06:34 PM |
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At long last
After lots of messing today, checking for compression and spark, I got it to start and only by squirting WD40 down the carbs. It didn't sound
so good at first but by the time it got hot it was a bit better. It starts when hot no problem. We'll see how it behaves tomorrow when it is
cold.
Today's trouble is that they managed to pull out the oil level sensor wire from the sensor. I tried to remove the sensor but it wouldn't
budge. I've got to find a way to reconnect the wire now.
[Edited on 29-10-2006 by smart51]
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