the_fbi
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 08:07 AM |
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Will Blade 919 billet sump fit 954 Blade?
As subject?
My 919 has a nice ally billet sump to give greater clearance, but my mind is starting to play tricks on me telling me to fit my 954.
Seeing as I don't have a prop yet and the wiring isn't finalised it wouldn't be too much of a pain (OK it would really be a pain) to
fit the 954.
New exhaust is the only really expensive difference. But if I need a new sump too then its another nail in the 954's coffin.
ta
Chris
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andrew.carwithen
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 10:15 AM |
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It could be worth talking to Andy Bates at AB Performance (Tel. 01284 703101) for a definitive answer.
He is an expert when it comes to blade engines in all their guises and BECs. One helluva nice bloke and excellent customer service.
Andy.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 09:09 PM |
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99.9% certain it won't fit Im afraid, the 893 and 919 sumps are interchangeable as the engine castings are the same, but the 929/954 are a
different engine completely.
Also don't forget engine mountings will need changing, as will the fuel pump, possibly fuel lines and maybe gearchange setup etc. You'll
also need a fuel return feed and fuel tank mods to accomodate the return feed (possibly OK on a Westie) with EFI, plus the wiring changes are fairly
significant.
I converted from carbed blade to injected R1 and it was quite a bit of work, and a 954 blade wouldnt be any easier, indeed I dismissed it for that
very reason, it wasnt as proven as the R1, wasnt as powerful and wouldnt be any easier to fit.
[Edited on 31/8/06 by ChrisGamlin]
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the_fbi
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 09:16 PM |
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Chris, you'll know the answer to this too I think.
Is the 954 less low (sump-wise) than the 919 anyway?
I'd possibly get away with using the standard 954 sump, I guess I need to measure the distance from the mounting position to the sump bottom on
both.
I really like the idea of the 954 being in there, but its not a simple change, what with HISS, clocks (are the clocks part of the HISS or just the
lock surround?) extra wires and I'd need to modify the loom removing all the extra stuff, side stand switch etc.
The extra 20bhp and injection would be nice though.
Grrr. I hate this 
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the_fbi
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 09:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Also don't forget engine mountings will need changing, as will the fuel pump, possibly fuel lines and maybe gearchange setup etc. You'll
also need a fuel return feed and fuel tank mods to accomodate the return feed (possibly OK on a Westie) with EFI, plus the wiring changes are fairly
significant.
The tank is already an injection tank, but I'd need to run a return, not a problem as there's no prop currently.
Gearchange is the same, although backwards as the RRX (or W) was up/down backwards without the bike linkage.
Engine mounts I'm pretty sure are the same, certainly the bottom ones. If the head ones are different its not by enough to make it not fit given
the bracket in use.
Which is actually a Firebird bracket in my case, which fits the 919.
Its the wiring and management side which scares me.
The alternative is the new microsquirt and my 954 TB's which would be an ideal solution.
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the_fbi
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 09:59 PM |
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Just re-read all the docs on Microsquirt. Although its been delayed due to component issues, its perfect for getting the 919 running on TB's.
Or even the 954 without the worry of HISS etc.
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scotlad
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 10:11 PM |
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I've just converted to blade 954. sump is lower on 954 than 919 and will prob need shortening (see chris gamlin )
also exhaust totally different and wiring rather more complicated.
having said all that, i had my power commander set up at holeshot last week and the car was doing 127.3bhp at the wheels. the car also drives a lot
better than old engine, though i'm getting a fair bit of driveline shunt at the moment- may be the diff getting a bit 'loose/
broken'
any questions/ pics wanted juszt u2u me
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the_fbi
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 10:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scotlad
I've just converted to blade 954. sump is lower on 954 than 919 and will prob need shortening (see chris gamlin)
also exhaust totally different and wiring rather more complicated.
having said all that, i had my power commander set up at holeshot last week and the car was doing 127.3bhp at the wheels. the car also drives a lot
better than old engine, though i'm getting a fair bit of driveline shunt at the moment- may be the diff getting a bit 'loose/
broken'
I don't suppose you had the 919 rolling roaded too, what did it make?
Was your new exhaust from MK or whom? How much?
The wiring is the bit really putting me off. Sidestand switch, clutch switch, HISS (as I've got a UK loom/ECU), clocks etc (and I've just
finished my dash and did't use the blade clocks) so a lot to change and throw away if I change.
Although, I really like the idea of finding another set of 954 TB's and putting them on with Microsquirt when its more developed and available.
At leat that way I keep everything, exhaust, prop, mounts, and just need to add a really small loom for injection pump & injectors, the rest will
just go onto existing relays/senders.
Then I can also sell the 954 with all its bits, which should fetch £1k. Which will pay for the propshaft and rear driveshafts which I'm missing
and quite necessary.
Replacement 919's will also be a lot cheaper if this one breaks, than a 954.
Sounds like a plan
ta guys.
Chris
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scotlad
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| posted on 1/9/06 at 10:17 AM |
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No idea of 919cc engine dyno readings i'm afraid, though others on here might know.
New exhaust manifold was custom made by a local company for £400
Wiring is not too bad as long as you have a haynes manual and a bit electrical knowledge.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 1/9/06 at 03:11 PM |
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My old RRX was RR'd at TTS measuring 112bhp at the wheels, about 4 years ago though and theyve moved since so possibly not the same rollers.
FWIW I had my R1 RR's last year and it showed 137bhp at the wheels with just a borrowed Power Commander map, so not actually mapped for my car.
Others have seen a bit higher (into the low 140's) even with carbed engines although obviously its tricky comparing anything exactly unless its
all done on the same rollers.
[Edited on 1/9/06 by ChrisGamlin]
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the_fbi
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| posted on 1/9/06 at 07:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andrew.carwithen
It could be worth talking to Andy Bates at AB Performance (Tel. 01284 703101) for a definitive answer.
Update just for the record.
quote:
Email from Andy Bates
I have raced both of the models you discuss for a number of years in sidecars and cars. The 919 is just about as bullet proof as they come, whilst the
954 is not quite as robust it offers slightly more bhp. My own personal choice would be the 919. The billet sump you mention is not interchangeable
and whilst you can run the 919 on billet sump and good baffle, the 954 is borderline on oil surge and I would always use an accusump with them.
Looks like the 919 is the kiddy to have. And at some point I'll Microsquirt it.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 2/9/06 at 02:06 PM |
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Yep, Andy also said to me that the 929/954 wasnt his favourite blade engine, and that it wasnt as strong as the earlier (or later) engines.
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Toady1
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| posted on 5/9/06 at 10:01 AM |
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but remember he is using them in sidecar races and you sure wont get your cornering speed anywhere near those things do, so oil surge wont be the
smae. Also they are mounted differently in the sidecars.
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the_fbi
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| posted on 5/9/06 at 11:29 AM |
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Sidecars and cars he says.
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