The stress of building a kit car...
Twin40 - 28/6/12 at 07:37 AM
Not sure if this will help anyone else, but it certainly annoyed me! So thought i would share...
Last weekend i managed to get the busa engine ready to be fitted into the chassis, so i bolted on the engine cradle to the motor and lifted it in.
Description
To my amazement, none of the chassis bolt holes lined up, at first i thought we had done something wrong, but after 3hours of 'adjustment'
we found that the engine cradle doesn't line up wit the chassis at all!
And to top it off, my £1500 dry sump also hits the bottom chassis rail. arrgghh
So to avoid that we have to slightly angle the motor, and now the cradle lines up even worse.
So i'm making my own one now.
why is nothing ever simple and straightforward!?!
Rant over.
T66 - 28/6/12 at 08:04 AM
I've sickened myself with mine, haven't been in the garage for 3 weeks.
Holidays shortly so it will be another couple of weeks.
big_wasa - 28/6/12 at 08:06 AM
Some of that welding is only diy standard aswell 
Toprivetguns - 28/6/12 at 08:46 AM
Can I ask politely who fabricated the engine cradle for you ?
BenB - 28/6/12 at 09:00 AM
Doesn't look like there's enough penetration on the welds there. They look like stuck-on cuckoo poo type welds.
Mr Whippy - 28/6/12 at 09:05 AM
I think you should send it back and get a replacement or refund, send them the pictures too and mention it's on the forum
[Edited on 28/6/12 by Mr Whippy]
JekRankin - 28/6/12 at 09:28 AM
How frustrating. Sadly, it seems there is a real problem with quality of components from some suppliers in this industry. I would send the cradle
right back to whoever made it for a full refund.
I had similar issues with the engine mounts (and many of the other components) BGH Geartech supplied me - they were badly made and ill fitting. I had
to chop them up and remake most of them. Dealing with an incompetent kit supplier can cause huge amounts of stress and frustration - I hope its just a
one off and the rest of the parts in your kit are better made.
Jek
pauladamss - 28/6/12 at 09:46 AM
I had the same problem fitting my engine, took me all day most holes didnt line up.
Twin40 - 28/6/12 at 09:47 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Toprivetguns
Can I ask politely who fabricated the engine cradle for you ?
This was supplied by MK with the chassis.
i could chase up for a replacement, but i probably still won't be happy with it - so i'll make my own.
its just the time thats wasted that really bugs me, i only get one day a weekend to do this stuff. Ah well its a lesson learned i guess (first ever
kit car) , check the engine fits before anything else!
cheers.
Mr Whippy - 28/6/12 at 11:14 AM
I would still mention it too them cos if you don't this may not be the last post with one of these not fitting
my MK stuff years ago all was quite well made, I'm suprised they have done that bad
Mr C - 28/6/12 at 11:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by T66
I've sickened myself with mine, haven't been in the garage for 3 weeks.
Holidays shortly so it will be another couple of weeks.
These companies that send out substandard goods do not realise the stress and grief this causes, especially when you have a considerable amount of
money tied up in what's supposed to be a quality product. their approach to customer don't care is right up there with cowboy builders,
dodgy double glazing salesman and high pressure estate agents.
I hear "it'll be worth it in the end," unfortunately nothings worth this levels of stress and aggro, it taints the whole experience.
Unfortunately there is more poor companies than good, if they did only two things different things would improve massively
1. make sure the product does what is says on the tin
and
2. provide the product as agreed, don't make empty promises about delivery dates. or bullsh!t excuses.
I kept thinking it'll get better, though overall it hasn't been a good experience, people such as Russ and Eddie have helped tremendously to
remind me there are people out there who genuinely care and want to do things well for their customers.
(Eddie I still owe you that big drink, I haven't forgotten)
If I was to do another project, which is doubtful, I would have little or no expectations and if there are good experiences along the way, well they
will be a bonus.
All the best with the car
[Edited on 28/6/12 by Mr C]
omega 24 v6 - 28/6/12 at 11:41 AM
I'm with big wasa on this one. JEEEEEEEZUz them welds look poor to say the least. Question is, what is out?? the chassis or the cradle ( which
should fit your chassis.
bi22le - 28/6/12 at 11:47 AM
Makes me very glad that I brought my car second hand pre built. It costs less and lets someone else loose their mind over building it.
If you want to build a car. Buy second hand then dismantle, recondition and rebuild it to your spec!
I hope the rest of your build goes well. MK seem to be getting kicked about recently. I hope their quality and customer service picks up soon, they
are a big player in this industry and need to set an example.
bobinspain - 28/6/12 at 12:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Twin40
quote:
Originally posted by Toprivetguns
Can I ask politely who fabricated the engine cradle for you ?
This was supplied by MK with the chassis.
i could chase up for a replacement, but i probably still won't be happy with it - so i'll make my own.
its just the time thats wasted that really bugs me, i only get one day a weekend to do this stuff. Ah well its a lesson learned i guess (first ever
kit car) , check the engine fits before anything else!
cheers.
Plus ca change, plus c'est plus la meme chose Clive. (malheureusement).
[Edited on 29/6/12 by bobinspain]
Davegtst - 28/6/12 at 12:12 PM
I had exactly the same problem with my hayabusa cradle too (along with many other faults). I had to bend it into position with a block of wood and a
lump hammer to get it close enough to fit! It was 90 quid for that bit of wrongly made metal too. When i raised this with MK i was told by Phil it
wasn't possible to be wrong as they were made in a jig and basically get stuffed. My indy R has caused a huge ammount of stress and pretty much
all of it has come from MK's poor workmanship and lies.
JekRankin - 28/6/12 at 09:40 PM
Mr C, I couldn't agree with you more.
Cowboy kit companies need to face up to their responsibility to provide goods which are fit for purpose and delivered on time. Instead, some seem to
be in the habit of taking orders under lead times they have no hope of delivering upon and bodging parts together with a sloppy 'that'll
do' attitude before firing them out the door without even checking if they fit. This was certainly my own experience of dealing with BGH.
Buying a kit from the company I did has been, I think, one of the most regrettable decisions I've ever made. Will it be worth it in the end? No
way! I'm sure I'll still be pleased when its done, but there's not a chance it's been worth all the frustration with poor fitting
parts which were delivered months (sometimes years) late and the hassle of having to phone up week after week to be given the same excuses again and
again.
Thankfully, there are kit suppliers out there who offer good quality, well engineered goods, and great customer service. I only wish I'd bought
from one of them, and would encourage anyone thinking of starting a build to consider the supplier's reputation as the primary consideration when
choosing a kit!
Dopdog - 28/6/12 at 10:27 PM
It is such a same to read this thread but it does seem that MK either do a wonderful job for some people or a complete bag of s**t for others. I do
feel you as there is nothing worse than spending hard earned cash to find it was a waste of money. you then have to fix it yourself. send it back and
get your money back off them.
slingshot2000 - 28/6/12 at 11:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
I would still mention it too them cos if you don't this may not be the last post with one of these not fitting
I also really think you should contact them about this, the standard of welding is atrocious. If you don't let them know they will just carry on
selling rubbish like this.
Regards
Jon
Toprivetguns - 28/6/12 at 11:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Twin40
quote:
Originally posted by Toprivetguns
Can I ask politely who fabricated the engine cradle for you ?
This was supplied by MK with the chassis.
i could chase up for a replacement, but i probably still won't be happy with it - so i'll make my own.
its just the time thats wasted that really bugs me, i only get one day a weekend to do this stuff. Ah well its a lesson learned i guess (first ever
kit car) , check the engine fits before anything else!
cheers.
If you bought garden furniture from John Lewis and the weld on a chair meant it was wonky, you wouldn't make yourself a brand new chair. You
would take it back !
You've paid for a product with your hard earned money and needless to say its unacceptable. Also why should you need to fit the engine first. All
the parts you ordered should fit perfectly !
If anything ask for the equivalent money back.
Good luck with the car, its looking really good.
Simon - 28/6/12 at 11:36 PM
If that was made in a jig, then the jig is wrong, they'd have been better off making it in situ.
I'd sent it back, say that others have had similar probs. Substandard goods ain't clever.
ATB
Simon
vanepico - 29/6/12 at 12:09 AM
What my mum would call a friday afternoon item..... cause everyone's buggered off home!
pmc_3 - 29/6/12 at 07:15 AM
Even to my untrained eye the welding looks bad. They must have let a work experience lad build that one lol Send it back!
tomgregory2000 - 30/6/12 at 06:22 AM
That welding is shocking
stevegough - 30/6/12 at 07:09 AM
Fully agree with the welding comments - my welds looked like that when I was learning (they're not much better now!!) but that is VERY
substandard. If you don't demand a refund, you want your bumps feeling! Start by sending MK those photos showing the welds and ask them why you
shouldn't take it to the local trading standards office.
Even if it had lined up, and you had fitted it, I reckon the welds would fail in use. I don't think the IVA inspector would pass it, either.
daniel mason - 30/6/12 at 08:34 AM
i hope the cradle is out,becausus handling er if its chassis which is not square your gonna have some serious handling issues
bobinspain - 30/6/12 at 08:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
i hope the cradle is out,becausus handling er if its chassis which is not square your gonna have some serious handling issues
"It is are not raining here also." (Tony Hancock------'The Radio Ham'
omega 24 v6 - 30/6/12 at 09:02 AM
Interesting thread in as much as yes the supplier ( who is a regular on here ) should be refunding you, but as yet he hasn't replied on here at
all. ??
I doubt the chassis is out, as, looking at the pictures, the casing on the box/engine is way out from the mounting boss.
You need to get a refund OR a properly fitting/ welded cradle.
Dangle_kt - 30/6/12 at 09:58 AM
The point of this guys thread is the stress. Complaining and trying to practically beg for a refund IS stressful.
If you can avoid it and have the skills then doing it himself might feel like a better option to him.
jabbahutt - 4/7/12 at 07:07 AM
I see what you're getting at Dangle but on the flip side, Firstly the nagging stress that you paid for something that is wrong would slowly drive
me mad and secondly if MK aren't notified and sort this out countless others are also going to experience this stress and might not have the
skills to rectifiy it.
Davegtst - 4/7/12 at 08:12 AM
Trust me MK have been notified and seem to have done absolutly nothing about it.
stevegough - 4/7/12 at 08:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Davegtst
Trust me MK have been notified and seem to have done absolutly nothing about it.
That is a dreadful shame. Aftersales service is something (a lot, but not all of) British companies are pretty bad at.
If the OP can confirm that MK are basically telling him to 'get lost' then I think we as a group ought to totally boycott MK.
Twin40 - 4/7/12 at 09:03 AM
Woah calm down! I posted this up just to share my problems with like minded people for a bit of support - not boycott a manufacturer!
I have not spoken with MK, and i'm sure if i had done I may have been able to source a replacement engine cradle. Its my choice to fabricate my
own, purely down to being a fussy git and wanting to get the car built asap.
Obviously i'm not the first person to have issue's with the MK builds, many here have had varying problems. As a 'newbie' i
don't know if its just part of building a kit car, but hopefully these forums will help others watch out for potential problems before they get
to far with their own builds.
cheers
C.
jabbahutt - 4/7/12 at 09:27 AM
I admire your extremely chilled attitude, I wish I possessed a similar mins set. I still feel though that MK should be made aware of your problem as
others further doewn the line may not have your skills and abilities to fabricate items that should of been correct in the first place.
stevegough - 4/7/12 at 09:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Twin40
Woah calm down! I posted this up just to share my problems with like minded people for a bit of support - not boycott a manufacturer!
I have not spoken with MK, and i'm sure if i had done I may have been able to source a replacement engine cradle. Its my choice to fabricate my
own, purely down to being a fussy git and wanting to get the car built asap.
Obviously i'm not the first person to have issue's with the MK builds, many here have had varying problems. As a 'newbie' i
don't know if its just part of building a kit car, but hopefully these forums will help others watch out for potential problems before they get
to far with their own builds.
cheers
C.
Leave us alone! We are endeavoring to have group therapy here, sharing your stress, soothing the waters.....a serene sunset scene with the lone call
of an Owl hooting in the wilderness.....
Twin40 - 4/7/12 at 09:56 AM
fimi7 - 8/7/12 at 08:36 AM
I hit the exact same problem with my sump. I eventually used the same cradle, just moved it about 1 inch to the right. I also raised it about 1/4 inch
so I could run a flat bottom.
Keep in this affects several things. My exhaust is now very close to the body and the shift cable never lined up right again.
For this specific problem you really cannot blame MK. Come on... You buy a kit to use standard engine parts then swap them out for aftermarket, with a
drain in a completely different location and it does not fit and you want to blame the manufacturer? really... Wow
Twin40 - 9/7/12 at 07:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by fimi7
I hit the exact same problem with my sump. I eventually used the same cradle, just moved it about 1 inch to the right. I also raised it about 1/4 inch
so I could run a flat bottom.
Keep in this affects several things. My exhaust is now very close to the body and the shift cable never lined up right again.
For this specific problem you really cannot blame MK. Come on... You buy a kit to use standard engine parts then swap them out for aftermarket, with a
drain in a completely different location and it does not fit and you want to blame the manufacturer? really... Wow
Kimi, I totally agree with you regarding the sump - MK didn't know i was going to run that - and i never specifically blamed the manufacturer, i
was highlighting the difficulties i've experienced when building a kit car.
And i'm well down the line now with the "new" version and will post up some pics when done.
Cheers
C.
MakeEverything - 9/7/12 at 08:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by fimi7
I hit the exact same problem with my sump. I eventually used the same cradle, just moved it about 1 inch to the right. I also raised it about 1/4 inch
so I could run a flat bottom.
Keep in this affects several things. My exhaust is now very close to the body and the shift cable never lined up right again.
For this specific problem you really cannot blame MK. Come on... You buy a kit to use standard engine parts then swap them out for aftermarket, with a
drain in a completely different location and it does not fit and you want to blame the manufacturer? really... Wow
Dont they sell the sump kit though?
The exhaust being close to the body seems common also, which suggests a design flaw or as previously posted by someone on this thread, the Jigs are
wrong.
But, i suppose that'll t'do for some.
bobinspain - 9/7/12 at 08:50 AM
The exhaust being close to the body seems common also, which suggests a design flaw or as previously posted by someone on this thread, the Jigs are
wrong.
But, i suppose that'll t'do for some.
I took a Dremel to the side panel around the exhaust manifold after a run out when I noticed melted fibreglass dribbling down the panel. 20 minute
job, but really awkward to get at. I now have a minimum of 5mm clearance around the underside of the manifold. It's such a socking great hole for
the manifold anyway, might as well oik off an extra cm where the bottom of the manifold exits the car and guarantee clearance.
MakeEverything - 9/7/12 at 09:45 AM
So not only should a hammer and crowbar be included in a kit, but a hacksaw / dremel too?
Confused but excited. - 9/7/12 at 10:11 AM
Re; 'Stress'.
I have found over the years that it is better not to get wound-up, but to look calmly upon things that go wrong as a challenge.
As far as 'Stress' goes, it is much better to give than to receive, so this is what I now do.
I let the other side have all the stress.
Custardpants - 13/7/12 at 09:42 PM
As far as I know MK now sell the SBD dry sump despite being well aware that a busa engine with one attached clashes with their placement of chassis
rail - mine was exactly the same.
In the end I modified the rail itself rather than move the engine. Your weld quality on your engine cradle is far worse than my own MK one - looks
crap really, I'd get it re-done, probably not by MK but by a proper welder unless you're local..
It suprised me as my roll cage welds by MK were very good.
[Edited on 13/7/12 by Custardpants]
jakeob - 14/7/12 at 05:17 PM
I can sympathise totally with the stress building/working on your own car
I,ve just completed a drum to disk conversion, what i thought was going to be straight forward. Turned out to be a bugger of a job. Although in the
end i managed it, the stress of trying to sort it out , for me out weighed to satisfaction of doing it myself.
I have just had the car picked up by MK whos fitting a new body and a roll cage, then the cars going to York to have a new engine fitted where i will
pick it hopfully all done. I was going to do it myself but just dont want the hassel.
stevegough - 14/7/12 at 05:32 PM
Although I can understand how you can have one of those days when nothing goes right, and every small thing seems to be an uphill struggle, I found
going in the garage for months on end building the car to be actually very enjoyable and theraputic.
I know for a fact that it did help that I always had plenty of time on my hands - courtesy of the great shft system I work (4 on 6 off).
SCAR - 15/7/12 at 07:38 AM
STRESS! STRESS! dont tell me about stress!
Try building a car with no manuel and upto 15 twelve to seventeen year olds in tow.
oh the blood!
isn't even my car at the end
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Actually its not too bad provided you stay completely chilled and keep things in perspective
No body died (so far) and everything done once can be re done and its (supposed to be) an interesting and enjoyable project.
Anybody local is welcome to pop in and see what we are doing during our Saturday morning car building club.
If anyone has any donations by way of unwanted materials, engines (lawn mower, scooter etc), tools or even money they would be gratefully received
and will go towards teaching our youngsters the benefits of DIY mechanics or completing our build
Cheers all
Steve P
Team SCAR
[Edited on 15/7/12 by SCAR]
