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5pw wiring
Beamerboy - 14/3/19 at 06:14 PM

Hi after a bit of advice for my r1 build

Briefly I have a 2002-2003 5pw engine and loom fitting in a kit car , I don’t have the clocks as using a digidash instead neither the ignition barrel and key but everything else present

I had the problem fuel pump ran but no spark fixed that by earthing the black cable in the ignition switch the alarm cable

That all works but still no life of it starting , I have bridged the black wire and blue and yellow wire also on the ignition switch loom as recommend this also. But still nothing

Am I right thinking imobiliser is stopping it still is this in the clocks as thought or is it actually in the ecu .

After any advice where going wrong to get it running or what wires I’ve missed to prevent it starting

Oh and also the red and brown which is the ignition switch is ran to a push button start which all works correctly and as should mention this Incase it may have a bearing on the issue.

Any help much appreciated and thankyou in advance

chicade - 14/3/19 at 06:42 PM

Tilt switch or neautral switch??

Beamerboy - 14/3/19 at 07:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by chicade
Tilt switch or neautral switch??


Tilt switch still connected as is , neutral switch still connected as per loom with dash neutral linked in also , I did disconnect the neutral switch originally and that killed it completely so re connected it up

chicade - 14/3/19 at 07:21 PM

Tilt switch in the correct position?

Beamerboy - 14/3/19 at 07:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by chicade
Tilt switch in the correct position?


Yes with up on the top fixed dead plumb too

Bigboystoys - 15/3/19 at 02:32 AM

I have a 5pw r1 and did once have a weak fuel pump. With it cranking look directly into the throttle bodies can you see it physically squirting fuel? You can slide up the diaphragm as it's cranking to have a better look.

Beamerboy - 15/3/19 at 03:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Bigboystoys
I have a 5pw r1 and did once have a weak fuel pump. With it cranking look directly into the throttle bodies can you see it physically squirting fuel? You can slide up the diaphragm as it's cranking to have a better look.


I will look tomorrow as battery flat now hoping it would get fixed by the fairies lol , I can smell fuel through the exhaust so seems to be coming through but I will check that

I am using an external fuel pump that is speced up same as the r1 original , and when switch on ignition it primes , tried it also disconnected from fuel rail and pumps really well in fact it p***** through , got great spark also checked that too.

I have a custom hilt 4-1 exhaust without the exup part in the exhaust would this cause anything I do have the expo sevo plugged in and works when start up ignition hear it setting up etc but not the part that’s fitted to the exhaust

Thanks for the comments so far and your help it’s much appreciated

Beamerboy - 16/3/19 at 10:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Bigboystoys
I have a 5pw r1 and did once have a weak fuel pump. With it cranking look directly into the throttle bodies can you see it physically squirting fuel? You can slide up the diaphragm as it's cranking to have a better look.


Just checked and not getting fuel in the injectors fuel pump priming , it seems the fuel system is shut down on the ecu and not having clocks cannot reset the fault code I’m guessing it’s flagging up

Is there any way round this to trick the ecu to think all is fine or is it a case of sourcing clocks to reset the fault code that way

Thanks

Bigboystoys - 16/3/19 at 12:56 PM

I have to be honest I didn't think the engine would need clocks to run. The best place to ask would be on this forum as they use the 5pw engine in Minis http://www.pro-motive.co.uk
Your next step now would be to put a pressure guage on the end of the fuel pump and see what it's producing while cranking think it's roughly about 40psi

Beamerboy - 16/3/19 at 02:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Bigboystoys
I have to be honest I didn't think the engine would need clocks to run. The best place to ask would be on this forum as they use the 5pw engine in Minis http://www.pro-motive.co.uk
Your next step now would be to put a pressure guage on the end of the fuel pump and see what it's producing while cranking think it's roughly about 40psi


Pump is fine and all working and getting spark , I’ve got to the bottom of it with another builder , what’s happened between the bike being stripped and me installing it the ecu has flagged up something not right and has shut down so it’s the injectors not working or anything to do with the choke throttle flaps etc this is what the ecu has shut down .

The fix is plug an original dash off an r1 ( which I don’t have lol ) and basically switch it on fault code will come up reset it off the dash and then good to go all being well

So now on the hunt for a cheap set of clocks which could take some searching as e of the bay silly prices for what I need it for so the search begins

Thanks for the Information also great to see people help out its much appreciated

Beamerboy - 2/4/19 at 07:57 PM

well here’s my status now got the missing headlamp loom part fitted that and connected original clocks

I did have some fault codes that I have reset they were

D62 2
D61 15
D61 22

These were all reset and cleared the dash and didn’t reappear

But it’s still doesn’t switch on the throttle bodies at all nothing so

still got fuel pump clicking in and pumps if I disconnect it from the fuel rail so eliminates the fuel pump but that seems the only place it will go to

Still got good spark on all 4

I did put cap full of fuel into the chambers and cranked it and it tried to start so proved that side of things I believe

Only things disconnected from the loom are fuel level sensor oil level sensor as will be connected to my dd2 lite dash using when up and running otherwise loom all major parts connected even tip over sensor connected and working fine

neutral switch wires connected together to trick as stand up like usual on all kit cars

Anyone shed any light on what I’m missing here as losing my hair fast

Bigboystoys - 3/4/19 at 07:23 AM

Have you still got the clocks?? Can you scan it again after an attempted start? I'm honestly still suspicious of the fuel pump, with that engine cranking and those butterfly s open you should see a lot of fuel being squirted down there as a mist.
When my pump went it also fired as fuel was getting to the spark plugs but it was not spraying anywhere near as much as it was once the pump was replaced.
The only way to prove the pump is good is with a pressure gauge, once you know the pressure is good then you can start looking at voltages at injectors.

Bigboystoys - 3/4/19 at 07:24 AM

Ab performance Andy Bates might also be able to offer some advice as he is well clued with modern bike engines

Beamerboy - 3/4/19 at 04:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Bigboystoys
Have you still got the clocks?? Can you scan it again after an attempted start? I'm honestly still suspicious of the fuel pump, with that engine cranking and those butterfly s open you should see a lot of fuel being squirted down there as a mist.
When my pump went it also fired as fuel was getting to the spark plugs but it was not spraying anywhere near as much as it was once the pump was replaced.
The only way to prove the pump is good is with a pressure gauge, once you know the pressure is good then you can start looking at voltages at injectors.


Scanned it and all clear , did that after I put fuel in the chamber , il check the fuel pump pressure , the butterfly’s don’t open at all the whole of the throttle bodies is basically lifeless, it’s got a few aroun£ the web scratching heads as well as me and a guy who builds bikes from scratch an£ very good at this sort of thing he’s scratching his head right now , thanks again for you info and suggestions I will try this probably be Friday now before know

Bigboystoys - 3/4/19 at 05:00 PM

From what I remember the butterfly s only open and close via the cable to the throttle, it's then the position sensor on the end of them that tells the ecu how much fuel to inject but controlling the injector. Let me know how you get on.

Beamerboy - 3/4/19 at 05:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Bigboystoys
From what I remember the butterfly s only open and close via the cable to the throttle, it's then the position sensor on the end of them that tells the ecu how much fuel to inject but controlling the injector. Let me know how you get on.


Thanks for that clears another bit up as I’m a beginner on electrics and injection more a carb man lol , yeah nothing seems to work on the injectors side and don’t see any spraying of fuel in chambers when trying to get it to run so something a miss just not seeming something simple or obvious, I’m wondering if it’s immobilised but as I didn’t strip it off a full bike got it as a package it’s hard as you don’t know the full history so in the dark as such, I don’t think it’s immobilized as I have spark and fuel pumping so would have thought not that with this part of it working

Thanks again il do another update when tried your suggestion and checked other parts to cross off the list

[Edited on 3/4/19 by Beamerboy]

Bigboystoys - 3/4/19 at 05:29 PM

I have a meta alarm on mine but I'm pretty sure when it's Immobilised the fuel pump can't be heard priming and it doesn't allow it to be cranked.

Beamerboy - 3/4/19 at 05:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Bigboystoys
I have a meta alarm on mine but I'm pretty sure when it's Immobilised the fuel pump can't be heard priming and it doesn't allow it to be cranked.


This just has the standard black wires from original but all looks in tact and as should be and yes that’s exactly how I thought it would be the case so rules it out really

Thanks