Hi All,
I have noticed that the starter motor has been getting a bit slower lately. Electrics are not my strong point so some guidance would be great.
Previously when the eng was cold it was fine. When the car it hot, it will hardly turn over at all on the first start, then on the second time of asking the starter motor worked fine.... until yesterday when it only just started on the first time. Thought about driving to work.. then decided I better re-test the starter motor and just a faint click! Next time I tested it - nothing at all.
It is reasonably tuned Ford Zetec 1.8 with a type 9 g/box.
Will send a pic of the starter motor tonight / tomorrow... so if it needs replacing someone can point me in the direction to which one hopeflully
Battery is less than 3 months old and fully charged
Checked battery voltage - 12.5ish at rest. drops 1v when head lights are on full. Dropped around 1.5v when I tried to start the car.
Checked voltage at the starter motor and in all conditions it was the same as the battery. All terminals are tight and sound as far as I can see to the battery and earth.
Should I try shorting across the terminals of the starter motor?
Alex

Hi,

Our zetecs struggle with this, starter is very close to exhaust, it has been suggested we make a cover to go over starter, also how old is the starter wire, this has an effect on how much electrical power its losing, the starter model is LRS707 I believe, they where on 1800 cvh engines, make sure if your buying a new one, there are 2 different size body's, u want the smaller one.



Andy

Europaspares sell an insulated starter motor cover / heat shield........... 14150 hth.

Thanks!
The exhaust is a reasonable distance from the wires / starter motor and the previous owner has put insulation cladding all the main wiring as well as covering the exhaust so I am guessing that there must have been an issue in the past.
You can see the exhaust cladding here, it runs outboard from the eng before running down and the battery is between the exhaust at the starter motor
https://goo.gl/photos/YyxTFJgNmNmuQjJJ6

Voltage droping from 12.5 to 11.5 with the headlights rings alarm bells for a battery issue. pre-engage starters won't do anything but click if the battery voltage is too low when they are activated. If that is the case what happens is the moving core in the solenoid starts to move but it hasn't got enough umph then gives up without closing the main contacts.

Before you do anything try thumping the starter it may or may not make it work in the short term.. If a no go before spending money try a jump start in any event you need to get the battery tested with pro level tools either a high tech solid state digital tester or an old style high current volts drop tester - or both.



[Edited on 3/8/17 by britishtrident]

Thanks... will have a good poke round at the weekend!

If you are still stuck you can give me a call after the 17th August (away on holiday) and I'm sure I can do a starter motor at cost price for any forum member.

Cheers
Mike

Albaston Starters & Alternators

if I am stuck will do - thanks Mike

couple of poor pictures of the starter motor... not much room and the lagged cables cover it
This looks like the motor and it matches the part no A845
http://www.startermotoralternator.com/xis7159

A couple of pictures. The starter motor it is quite some distance distance from any heat source.. If it needs changing, the engine mount will be in the way :-( so it will not be fun! still lets see if there is anything else that could cause the problem. I would be really "not happy" if the new Halfords battery is causing the problem as there is a definitive voltage drop when I turn on the lights. Though thinking about it I also get the approx same voltage drop when I am driving the car which would be the alternator or could be an earthing problem - would't it??
https://goo.gl/photos/WLNnk1DFrvP16XYx9
https://goo.gl/photos/AcKedE2AYH6JWf2b6

the voltage drop when lights are on is happening with engine running or with engine off? when off , i wouldnt worry.

how much voltage you have when engine is running?

if you want to exclude an earthign problem take a jump-start cable and connect battery minus with engine (if possible near the starter motor)
if you want to exclude the plus-cable comming from battery to starter, take a jump start cable and connect plus to starter.

does anything change if you connect an external battery by jump-start cables to your battery in the car?

by the way: plus side of battery should have a cover on the terminal.

[Edited on 4/8/17 by alfas]

Just for info, on the starter you show in your picture cost price on one of those would be about £60 delivered. So whatever you do don't let them anyone rip you off. Like I said before anyone on here needs starters or alternators then you can have it at cost price or repairs at cost of parts etc.

Hi Alfas,
thanks for the questions... !
I have a dash volt meter which seems to be running around 1.5v low.. tested the voltage with just the battery in a number of places and I get the same as on the battery - so I assume that the meter is not set up properly. What it shows though is the voltage dropping when the engine runs or not when I turn the lights on... from what you say below this could not be good!
Not had a chance to properly measure the voltage when the engine is running (as it won't!) but will do as soon as a can.

Will try bypassing the earth cable with a jump starter cable.. good idea! Also will try attaching jump starting the car with another car at the w.end.

Starterman Will take you up on the offer if I need to replace the motor.
Alex

Right... did all the tests and nothing from the starter motor. Took the starter motor and connected it direct to the battery.. still nothing so the starter motor is dead. Looks as though it was a recon until which not not last long!
Starterman. You have mail!
Alex

I'm in Greece on holiday but I'm on it👍🏼😝

I had issues with the Cmax starter which initially was put down to a bad battery by the garage, this did improve it but later it again would struggle to turn the engine over, just as if the battery was knackered, again!

So not seeing anything odd about the battery readings I took the starter apart to check it was ok and found the rear bearing completely worn away and the bearing seat actually oval so the motors rotor had in fact been grinding away the stator magnets.

This was on a 35k car and was the original Ford part so really just garbage quality from Ford again...so glad I don't own this car anymore oh and the replacement starter cost about £180

[Edited on 7/8/17 by Mr Whippy]

£180 bloody hell I'm in the wrong job !!!

Most garages don't have the right equipment to test modern batteries and starters, with staarters (or anything with a DC motor such as fuel pumps and alternator) current ramping with a an oscilloscope is a quick easy test that can tell a lot. Many garages still use voltage drop load tester that aren't big enough to load up the much bigger batteries in modern tintops. I changed mine for one imported from the USA that I can dial up to 800 amps if I am testing a really big battery.

[Edited on 7/8/17 by britishtrident]

Likewise I had to invest almost 13k for my latest alternator and starter tester. I need it for the latest COM controlled alternators.

This a shout out for Starterman (mike) for a great service... found out starter motor was knackered in Sat, contacted him and it was delivered by Tuesday... all done whilst he was on holiday in Greece.

Fitted it last night and what a difference with starting with much higher start speeds. The old one had been on the way out for ages (only 16k miles of motoring :-( ).

Also the new one is smaller and lighter - made fitting easier in a cramped area :-).
Cheers Alex
PS Mike can you send over some better weather from your hols as I am mobile again!
PSS learnt not to let bare arms rub on exhaust cladding - they will be painful / itchy for days now

A happy ending :-)