Denis.
It says a lot about the state of the premier motor sporting race at the weekend that there is no mention of it in this forum
Denis.
Same old... if you pretend vettel wasnt in the race it was a really good one!
I am afraid that I am turning slightly ambivalent about F1.
I respect the Drivers, the cars and the technical prowess but the politics and the money and general lack of engagement is astonishing.
Take Silverstone for example, why is it that both the MotoGP & Superbike paddocks use the old pits whilst F1 uses the new "Wing"?
The reason given my Toby Moody for MotoGP was that Dorna found the new "Wing" not very fan-friendly.
It is incredible how much F1 is so far up it's own backside. Even the TV coverage is turning the same. It is nothing more now than an old-boys
club with random seats available for those willing to put up not-inconsiderable amounts of money with the vain hope that they may be recognised as
"talents for the future" - assuming that they are not too old already.
F1 should be fun and interesting - not a cold, clinical excuse in the science of methodically and mathematically proving why a car cannot overtake due
to the aerodynamic upwash of another vehicle.
Yep, I will be watching the next race but thanks to Sky+, I can just watch the qualifying and the race and not listen to too much incessant
over-analysis from the commentators about why a car cannot go too fast because it will "wreck" its tyres.
F1 could learn a thing or two from NASCAR about entertainment - and how to govern the teams.
I have not bothered following F1 for many years and don't miss it. Too political, too pretentious and too much about money and celebrity and down right dull, the support races are more entertaining. The cars might be the best in the work at setting very fast lap times but they are crap for racing. I would like to see a return to manual gearboxes and steel brakes, the possibility of missing a gear and longer braking distances should help make it a bit more interesting. It amuses me that they needed to introduce things such as DRS to encourage overtaking.
What they should do is make wings half the size and bring back ground effects, that should see closer racing.
I'm bored hearing about drivers looking after their tyres.
I have been shouting for years at anyone who will listen (there aren't many) that the cars should have tyres that work, as many of them as they
want! Limit the aero so cars can get close and overtake without this KERS and DRS rubbish!
2.5L NA engines, fuel stops and reasonable testing.
DRS is a completely false concept and it just grates on me. Technically interesting but in terms of head to head racing it is just wrong.
Cut the aero is my vote.
I'm an F1 enthusiast , but i'm not going to buy 'SKY' to watch it.
The BBC coverage was the best and still is good with Gary Anderson & Eddie Jordan stirring it up every few weeks , but the 'highlights'
rather than live leaves me a bit cold .
Also I'm fed up with tyres, tyres,tyres,tyres,tyres,tyres,tyres!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The drivers complain to Pirelli but they are only doing what they have been asked to do (spice up the racing as if it were wet every time!)
I'm amazed Pirelli poke up with it because they receive bad press after nearly every race and to the non F1 fan that could be very damaging to
their image.
I'm with Dave.. Pirelli aren't exactly portrayed in a shining light despite what looks like delivering exactly what contracted to do.
I watched all the races this year (on BBC, so some highlights rather than live), and I still think the BBC coverage is exemplary. Yes it's a rich
boys' driving club, but that's part of what it is - take it or leave it. I don't agree with some of the rules, but these seasons are
still better than some from years ago when one team would runaway 5 seconds a lap, and end up with 1-2's on every track. Vettel is good, as are
Red Bull. Doesn't make for great drama for the #1 spot, but behind them, the chase is pretty exciting this year I think.
The rules change year on year to keep teams developing new things. Teams with higher budgets will be quicker to respond. If you then "dumb"
it down to "no spoilers, NA 2.5 engines" etc. then those teams with higher budgets will still come out on top as to get a small advantage
wouldn't be affordable to others due to the extensive time/money spent on perfecting the design.
Where I *was* disappointed was when I went to Silverstone, and in person, the racing just isn't exciting. I've been to NASCAR in the states,
and as dull as the concept is, it's the most thrilling and engaging motorsport event I've been to. You can see the entire track, the racing
is actual RACING that's incredibly close, and the atmosphere is unbelievable.
It's strange, I'd rather watch F1 on the telly, but I'd much rather go to a NASCAR race...
Sums it up quite well, and its very true, I also switched off through the dominant Schumacher years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24428367
i recon a new forumla could have some legs now, and be more appropriate to current tech, and advancing it. no rules other than any energy storage must be discharged completly at the start of each run, and say 75lts pump fuel for each race.
Pretty much all been said really. Get rid of old 'one finger' and it might become interesting again!
All happened in the Schumacher era, when the car was designed around a single driver and all efforts poured into them. Same story now, with Adrian
Newey (arguably the best designer in the paddock) designing a car specifically for Vettel the outcome is pretty predictable really. Pretty obvious why
MW has had enough 
I liked Vettel for the first couple of years, then he turned into the mandatory ***k!!
Ho hum, roll on 2014, maybe things will change? ...... but I doubt it
quote:
Originally posted by RickRick
i recon a new forumla could have some legs now, and be more appropriate to current tech, and advancing it. no rules other than any energy storage must be discharged completly at the start of each run, and say 75lts pump fuel for each race.
It's just a traveling circus, and it's not relevant any more.
Personally I think all of the "limiting regulations" need to be removed, this is supposed to be F1 - the pinnacle of motorsport.
Teams should be allowed to push the boundaries of every possible part of the car to get the win (without compromising safety of course), not be
limited by tyre degradation and maximum wing deflection/size, engine cc etc etc
It would allow some unique machinery on track - not the boring typical 'design' we see on TV's these days. The usual excuse is the
cost, but a smaller team may be able to develop a car to suit their budget, which can lap just as quick as the big teams!
Now it is all far to clinical and controlled for me....
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Sums it up quite well, and its very true, I also switched off through the dominant Schumacher years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24428367
booked my ticket for next yrs barca GP .
its the travelling and other poo that interests me ...
allowing more underfloor aerodynamics like indy car would allow cars to follow closely ...
steel brakes ... hmmm... they have steel discs/pads that can brake just as well as carbon....
I thought We had an understanding that We wait till Monday to prevent spoilers.
It would be better if they dropped the tyre nonsense, but It's a shame they changed mid season.
Still love it, yes it would be better if other drivers were closer to Vettel,
but there is some good close racing behind him.
Sky HD run up coverage is fantastic, some great technical pieces.
Will be much better too next year when turbos are in the mix.
Thankfully, we all still have MotoGP to watch. There is still the chance to see some close racing, marvelling at how they fail to crash at every corner. Watching that Repsol Honda going into a corner sideways, duelling, just does it for me.
quote:
Originally posted by morcus
I thought We had an understanding that We wait till Monday to prevent spoilers.
It would be better if they dropped the tyre nonsense, but It's a shame they changed mid season.
quote:
Originally posted by Twin40
Personally I think all of the "limiting regulations" need to be removed, this is supposed to be F1 - the pinnacle of motorsport.
Teams should be allowed to push the boundaries of every possible part of the car to get the win (without compromising safety of course), not be limited by tyre degradation and maximum wing deflection/size, engine cc etc etc
It would allow some unique machinery on track - not the boring typical 'design' we see on TV's these days. The usual excuse is the cost, but a smaller team may be able to develop a car to suit their budget, which can lap just as quick as the big teams!
Now it is all far to clinical and controlled for me....
It seems my meaning was unclear, it was an answer to the original post about how there wasn't a post earlier.
Looking forward to the turbos coming back, but than again bet the the boost will be capped at 6psi and not adjustable if Bernie has anything to do with it. Hope they just let the teams do what they want to.
Can watch it, not a huge fan, now a 100% convert back to MotoGp & BSB, where they still have races.
Hate Suzi Perry nearly as much I do the Sky F1 coverage. The touring cars (even with jason pluto) are more interesting than Vittel winning week in
week out.
Suzi Perry irritates me immediately every week, by walking and talking towards the camera, while in the pit lane, trying very hard to look like she
has hips and is attractive. Just watch her next time.......
My ten bobs worth 
I dont see F1 the pinnicle of motorsport and I dont think it should be expected to be.
For me its the technical and engineering behind F1 I enjoy.
Regulations have been put in place for a reason. We made overly fast circuit cars years ago and look what happened. .
They are capped at the lap times and get restricted in different way. Ridged tyres and technical lines are swapped and changed.
F1 is still very relivent. Many automotive firsts are from F1 and drip feed rown to road cars.
If they made it free for all then do you think red bull would design a car that allowed anyone to pass? Let alone gaurenteed death from crashing at
180mph from a hair pin!!!
I will watch the F1 if there is nothing else on, the cars interest me because of the technical side of things, but the racing is pants! I think the
introduction of DRS and KERS did increase the amount of overtaking, but it also makes it seem like it's not 'real' racing.
I went to Silverstone to watch the BTCC the weekend before last, and for £26, the racing and the general experience was fantastic. I had a stroll
round the paddock (pretty sure you can't do that at the F1, with paying a fortune!), I got invited into the garage where Rob Austin's
Surtees 1976 F1 car was to have a look around, as far as I could see, they didn't let anyone else in! And you certainly don't get to do that
at the F1 unless you're willing to cut off your right arm or you're a celebrity!
I'd choose BTCC or WTC over the F1 any day of the week...
Firstly, I don't have a problem with Vettel dominating - it's up to the others to beat him, not the FIA or F1 to limit him.
I do think it is part of the larger problem that the cars are sooo aero-dominant and the only way to develop aero is CFD & wind tunnel time but
the only way to find out if it works is to stick the car with a bunch of other cars.
Even NASCAR has found this out - they changed the shape of the cars and found that at certain tracks, the aero dominance resulted in processional
races. Their solution was to change the cars again - they went from spoilers to wings and back to spoilers as they provided for closer racing.
F1 has been left to its own devices, even when it was asked for closer racing, it took the most technically complicated solutions possible rather than
sit down together and collectively agree how to improve the show *and* save some money - anyone remember the "cost saving ideas"?
As I have said before, F1 is all about bending, twisting and breaking the rules in order to gain an (un)competitive advantage. The FIA does not have
the manpower nor the apparent desire to rule F1 with an iron fist so it goes for the easy targets such as Webber, just to show that it is willing to
do something so that it isn't forgotten about itself.
Breaking news.
Ferrari have sacked Massa and hired Nelson Piquet Jr to see if he can put a stop to Seb winning every GP
[Edited on 8/10/13 by puma931]
quote:
Originally posted by onenastyviper
Firstly, I don't have a problem with Vettel dominating - it's up to the others to beat him, not the FIA or F1 to limit him.
I do think it is part of the larger problem that the cars are sooo aero-dominant and the only way to develop aero is CFD & wind tunnel time but the only way to find out if it works is to stick the car with a bunch of other cars.
As I have said before, F1 is all about bending, twisting and breaking the rules in order to gain an (un)competitive advantage. The FIA does not have the manpower nor the apparent desire to rule F1 with an iron fist so it goes for the easy targets such as Webber, just to show that it is willing to do something so that it isn't forgotten about itself.
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by onenastyviper
Firstly, I don't have a problem with Vettel dominating - it's up to the others to beat him, not the FIA or F1 to limit him.
I do think it is part of the larger problem that the cars are sooo aero-dominant and the only way to develop aero is CFD & wind tunnel time but the only way to find out if it works is to stick the car with a bunch of other cars.
As I have said before, F1 is all about bending, twisting and breaking the rules in order to gain an (un)competitive advantage. The FIA does not have the manpower nor the apparent desire to rule F1 with an iron fist so it goes for the easy targets such as Webber, just to show that it is willing to do something so that it isn't forgotten about itself.
I dont think many people have a problem with him winning, however its only natural for people to get bored of one person winning, and the only way to show that boredom or frustration is by either booing or just disliking him.
And its not just Vettel, its the Redbull, its far a better car, and the ban on in season testing means a car that is ahead of the game at the begining of the season is likely to to stay that way. Even when Brawn dominated in 2009, it was only when the others caught on to the double difusser that they started to get closer.
Without a doubt the aero situation is the cause of the lack of close racing, and also the fact that the cars are so precise now they have to have a very narrow working window, even if they could 6 inches from each other with no aero issues, the engines would overheat after half a lap.
That comes down to technology available, which is impossible to restrict as the whole idea of top end motorsport is to push everything including the limit. Going back 20-30 years when racing was closer, theres was never the build tolerances we have now, and engines broke down regularly because of it, wheres the fun in having half the field not finish!
All motorsport is about gaining an advantage, even down to clubman level its impossible to police 100%, and those who dont push the boundaries are unlikely to suceed.
Current cars are hideous, races mind numbing such a boring sport
If RBR and Vettel were winning because of pure driver brilliance that would be one thing. But each and every race the end of the first lap he's
two seconds in front. No way that's just a good driver and a sorted chassis.
Without wanting to sound too much like a conspiracy theorist I smell a rat. Vettel has said that their "engine control system" is so clever
none of the opposition will ever work out how they've done what they've done and they got permission from the FIA about six weeks ago to
"update" their ECUs. Suddenly their car is massively faster than anyone else. Okay so the sound hasn't changed but who says it is
traction control.
I reckon they're using KERs harvesting in corners. I know the system only allows them to harvest under braking but who defines braking?
Presumably it's a switch on the brake pedal. Bit of pre-load and it's constant braking (without enough force to activate the hydraulic
brakes). Bit of electronic trickery do-dah and you've got variable KERs harvesting.
RBR have a long history of taking the rules to the edge (and beyond).
An interesting thread, with some good points, which I largely disagree with.
5 years ago, F1 was absolutely terrible to watch with the number of overtakes was measured in tens per season. The cars now are able to run MUCH
closer than they were even a couple of years ago, which in turn means that the drivers are prepared to take a little bit of a risk and make some
passes in strange ways at strange parts of the track. Sure its not Moto GP BUT its much better than it was.
The tyre situation I'm in agreement with most on here. I don't really want tyres to be a limiting factor as I want all the drivers going
flat out all the time (you'll see I contradict this further down this post when I talk about limited fuel, a sthis will definitely mean drivers
going slow to conserve fuel)
F1 is relevant and will become more relevant next year, probably more relevant than ever before. Smaller engines and forced induction and the clever
ways that the engine manufacturers (Honda included again soon) are driving innovation, will be relevant to us all. These engineers are working on
ways to get more from less. Less fuel but more performance. Fossil fuels are a finite resource, we all like cars, our kids and their kids will be
able to enjoy IC powered cars for much longer, based on the innovation that will be driven from F1 in the next few seasons. The holy grail is getting
more calorific value from the fuel. The F1 boffins will be focused on this now, as there will be an ever reducing amount of fuel available from the
FIA. This is innovation which is useful and relevant to us all.
The KERS systems in use next year will provide significantly more power too with crank recovery as well as the system in use today.
This is all seems like an exciting and I hope potent mix for 2014 of 'over boost', big bang KERS, DRA and limited fuel. Pretty exciting as
far as I can work out! More overtaking, closer racing, more strategy, LOADS of engine/turbo/energy recovery innovation which is exactly what I want
from the premier motorsport on the planet.
BTW - I was a Vettel fan, up to the point where he turned over his team mate.
quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
BTW - I was a Vettel fan, up to the point where he turned over his team mate.
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
If RBR and Vettel were winning because of pure driver brilliance that would be one thing. But each and every race the end of the first lap he's two seconds in front. No way that's just a good driver and a sorted chassis.
quote:
Originally posted by BenB
I reckon they're using KERs harvesting in corners. I know the system only allows them to harvest under braking but who defines braking? Presumably it's a switch on the brake pedal. Bit of pre-load and it's constant braking (without enough force to activate the hydraulic brakes). Bit of electronic trickery do-dah and you've got variable KERs harvesting.
Never thought i'd say it, but bring back refuelling and give them tyres they can race on every lap, that way they have to pit but can race
I thought the 07/08 seasons were classics
quote:
Originally posted by T66
Can watch it, not a huge fan, now a 100% convert back to MotoGp & BSB, where they still have races.
Hate Suzi Perry nearly as much I do the Sky F1 coverage. The touring cars (even with jason pluto) are more interesting than Vittel winning week in week out.
Suzi Perry irritates me immediately every week, by walking and talking towards the camera, while in the pit lane, trying very hard to look like she has hips and is attractive. Just watch her next time.......
My ten bobs worth
quote:
Originally posted by mark chandler
quote:
Originally posted by T66
Can watch it, not a huge fan, now a 100% convert back to MotoGp & BSB, where they still have races.
Hate Suzi Perry nearly as much I do the Sky F1 coverage. The touring cars (even with jason pluto) are more interesting than Vittel winning week in week out.
Suzi Perry irritates me immediately every week, by walking and talking towards the camera, while in the pit lane, trying very hard to look like she has hips and is attractive. Just watch her next time.......
My ten bobs worth
Hey, leave Suzy alone, it needs something to watch