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Buying from a main dealer (Ford) - Discount?!
FASTdan - 6/12/15 at 09:41 PM

Until now I have only ever dealt in the lower realms of car buying, ie 3-4k max, either through private sales or independent car lot type places. However with an imminently due 2nd baby on the way we thought we might splash out on something a bit more modern and 'nice' as a family car. Initially we started with the Focus 1.0 Ecoboost estate - target price 9-10k (3 years old). However I quickly learned that the Ford main dealers seem absolutely intent on offering ZERO discount. Despite being a cash buyer, spending what I consider to be a reasonably large sum and quite happy to NOT part exchange if it gets me a better price. They simply will not move?! The last discount I was offered on one of these cars was a princely sum of £30....really? Don't bother, its insulting.

So today, having upped the budget and spec somewhat to 15-16k and having identified an ideal sounding 1 year old 1.5L ecoboost zetec S locally (another main dealer network) off I went again. Only to be told they would not move from the screen price - regardless of if I part ex or not (part ex price was also the worst I've had yet). Are ford really selling so many cars that they simply do not need to 'deal' with people like me? I resent spending that level of money and being offered absolutely no discount. Or is it simply that most joe public will happily walk in and pay the screen price and bang it on finance? I am of course aware that (as ridiculous as it is) being a cash buyer is almost frowned upon as they'd rather sell finance packages.

OK so I go in low (aren't you supposed to?) but shouldn't they come back with a counter offer? Instead I just get 'we price our cars to be the cheapest in the country' and 'we dont deal on our cars'. Not only that but the showroom salesman seems to have absolutely no control, simply a puppet of the sales manager who makes all decisions large or small.

So having spoken to 3 of the main local (?) ford networks (Trust, Benfield and Evans Halshaw) now I am really at a loss as to how to proceed other than to simply identify a car and stump up the full screen price or start again with another manufacturer/model and see if they are any more agreeable to my bartering (I strongly suspect not!).

Rant over! Being the 'locost' site I'm sure we have a few like minded people - any tips?!

livelee - 6/12/15 at 09:54 PM

How much discount do you offer on your advertised prices?

MrFozzieBear - 6/12/15 at 09:58 PM

Unfortunately being a cash buyer isn't a strong hand anymore with main dealers.

I found the same issue. They (main dealers) only really want to sell cars with finance as that is how they make most money.

[Edited on 6/12/15 by MrFozzieBear]

perksy - 6/12/15 at 10:02 PM

As above


Also to be fair you were looking to buy possibly the best selling car in the country
They are only interested in the finance deal and trying to sell you GAP insurance, that's where they make their money...

Irony - 6/12/15 at 10:03 PM

Just plain run from Evans Halsham. Bunch of utter cowboys.

sdh2903 - 6/12/15 at 10:14 PM

Sod buying one.

Lease one instead. Let them cover the depreciation. We got a focus 1.6 tdci zetec s with a couple of options for under 200 quid a month. It works out for us over a 3 year period the cheapest way to use a new car with no worries.

FASTdan - 6/12/15 at 10:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by livelee
How much discount do you offer on your advertised prices?


I would not be so hypocritical as to post about this if as a business owner I did not appreciate that it has to go both ways. I respect a customer who asks and will always do something where I can. Of course as in most lines of business the level of spend will influence the offer.

FASTdan - 6/12/15 at 10:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Sod buying one.

Lease one instead. Let them cover the depreciation. We got a focus 1.6 tdci zetec s with a couple of options for under 200 quid a month. It works out for us over a 3 year period the cheapest way to use a new car with no worries.


Does it really? Thats a genuine question, not sarcasm. As I say I've never been in the market for a car of such value so its all new to me. But a very brief look at leasing suggested to me that compared to a brand new car purchase it might be competitive (where the car looses x thousand the moment its driven away) but as against a year old model thats already taken the big hit maybe not?

Irony - why do you say that about EH?

So basically it sounds like screen price only at the main stealers? might have to widen my search and try to find something outside dealer networks, or just go back to older car roulette.

christim - 6/12/15 at 10:26 PM

Guess they want to get you on finance as theyll make £££ more in interest over the years. Though that means they may then be willing to offer a bigger discount, as they know theyll make it back.
Soo...go in all smiling, say you'll take the finance if they give you a good discount. Then take your cash and pay off the finance once its all signed and the cars yours.
(Be aware of exit charges. If there are any they'll probably be a % of the outstanding balance...so make that balance as small as possible with the legally required free overpayments you're allowed to make on the loan )

rdodger - 6/12/15 at 10:33 PM

Try VW. I bet you get a discount there!

Seriously I have never known a dealer not give discounts.

sdh2903 - 6/12/15 at 10:34 PM

Yes agreed over a 1 year old car leasing maybe does not make as much sense.

But when we sat down and worked the numbers over 3 years with lease, pcp and standard hp the lease came out on top. The car will never be out of warranty and never have to mot it. Yes some people can't get passed the fact you just hand it back with nothing to show for it but if you look at it objectively it made sense in our case.

FASTdan - 6/12/15 at 10:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by christim
Guess they want to get you on finance as theyll make £££ more in interest over the years. Though that means they may then be willing to offer a bigger discount, as they know theyll make it back.
Soo...go in all smiling, say you'll take the finance if they give you a good discount. Then take your cash and pay off the finance once its all signed and the cars yours.
(Be aware of exit charges. If there are any they'll probably be a % of the outstanding balance...so make that balance as small as possible with the legally required free overpayments you're allowed to make on the loan )


Nope! no better deal offered for taking the finance or not. Started off on the Ford finance route, absolutely no movement on price.

sdh2903 - 6/12/15 at 10:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rdodger
Try VW. I bet you get a discount there!

Seriously I have never known a dealer not give discounts.


If they are selling well they don't need to! When we were looking at focus' we were getting offered a max of 500 quid off.

FASTdan - 6/12/15 at 10:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
quote:
Originally posted by rdodger
Try VW. I bet you get a discount there!

Seriously I have never known a dealer not give discounts.


If they are selling well they don't need to! When we were looking at focus' we were getting offered a max of 500 quid off.


I haven't even got near £500! It's £80 here and £50 there!

perksy - 6/12/15 at 10:57 PM

a mate at work tried for a discount on a brand new Audi A3 at the local main agent and they basically laughed him out of the door...


He bought a 1 year old skoda octavia with a good discount in the end, He played one dealer off against another to get the deal

mark chandler - 6/12/15 at 11:06 PM

http://www.lingscars.com/Ford/Fiesta/2133562-1.0_T_EcoBoost_12v_(125bhp)_Zetec_S_Start_Stop_Hatchback_3dr_998cc-personal.html#models

My father has always managed discounts, he buys from Plymouth dealers are catches the train from Sussex, they seem a bit keener down there !

sdh2903 - 6/12/15 at 11:37 PM

We got our last one from smartlease. They were the broker for ald automotive who provide all the leasing for ford themselves.

An example here with nav and option pack, granted based on a low mileage, you need to ask for your specific mileage requirements.

http://www.smartlease.co.uk/car-leasing-ford-focus-tdi-zetes-s-5door.html

jonabonospen - 7/12/15 at 01:20 AM

Why should you "expect" a discount. If the cars are priced at competitive prices in the first place then you cant get much fairer than that. Would you rather they just stuck an extra grand on the screen price and then had your pants down if you didn't work hard enough for the discount, just like people like Carcraft did ?? Dont look at it as what discount am I getting, just look at the overall cost of the car. Is it competitively priced compared to others on the market, and if not then just go buy one from somewhere else.

On another point, as someone else has said; if they are one of the best selling cars and you are looking for a brand new one, then why should they offer any discount even if there is room to maneuver? They take the risk that you go to another main dealer yes, but if they are selling that well then someone else will be along shortly to buy it at the screen price.

Cash is not king when it comes to things like this. If anything cash is more of a pain as they will physically have to go to the bank to put it in, rather than a bank transfer / card payment / finance where it just goes straight in their account. You will also probably find from business banking that paying cash in to your account carries a bigger charge than receiving an BACS or card payment (business banking works totally different from private banking and you have to pay a fee for pretty much everything from putting money in, to online transactions, and taking money out).

beaver34 - 7/12/15 at 06:46 AM

if the car is over priced compared to the rest of the market then yes.

if as they say they are on the button then they will stand there ground.

ian locostzx9rc2 - 7/12/15 at 06:50 AM

Try silverdale cars and commercials near Bicester always have lots available and normally are cheaper than main dealers .

beaver34 - 7/12/15 at 06:53 AM

buy this one instead

http://www.thecarpeople.co.uk/find-a-car/car-details/ford-focus-wakefield-277202

or this one

http://www.trustfordonline.co.uk/used-cars/74614/ford-focus/

unless your wanting the facelift version?

[Edited on 7/12/15 by beaver34]

rdodger - 7/12/15 at 09:00 AM

Have you tried brokers like Drive the deal?

https://www.drivethedeal.com/

Ugg10 - 7/12/15 at 09:12 AM

Might as well just go to a car supermarket then, at least you know that there is no haggling at one of those.

FASTdan - 7/12/15 at 10:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jonabonospen
Why should you "expect" a discount. If the cars are priced at competitive prices in the first place then you cant get much fairer than that. Would you rather they just stuck an extra grand on the screen price and then had your pants down if you didn't work hard enough for the discount, just like people like Carcraft did ?? Dont look at it as what discount am I getting, just look at the overall cost of the car. Is it competitively priced compared to others on the market, and if not then just go buy one from somewhere else.

On another point, as someone else has said; if they are one of the best selling cars and you are looking for a brand new one, then why should they offer any discount even if there is room to maneuver? They take the risk that you go to another main dealer yes, but if they are selling that well then someone else will be along shortly to buy it at the screen price.

Cash is not king when it comes to things like this. If anything cash is more of a pain as they will physically have to go to the bank to put it in, rather than a bank transfer / card payment / finance where it just goes straight in their account. You will also probably find from business banking that paying cash in to your account carries a bigger charge than receiving an BACS or card payment (business banking works totally different from private banking and you have to pay a fee for pretty much everything from putting money in, to online transactions, and taking money out).


I 'expect' some movement because:

1) I am a cash buyer - no not physical cash, because as you have already mentioned that brings its own problems, but rather a straight forward electronic transaction (and neither do I tend to have 10-15k in my back pocket ). Yes we can argue that they would rather sell finance for the extra commission - however I would counter that by saying that even at today's poor rates I can get 3% on a current account, so I suspect they can get at least that. This I suspect will near enough equal the commission or rate that they receive from the finance company (given their APR is only around 5.5%, I doubt the dealer see's more than half of this from the credit company).

2) I am prepared to not part-ex if this helps with the price - but it seems it does not. I would have thought that again, a straight forward sale with no potentially risky part-ex would be more appealing.

On the point of them claiming to be tightly priced - here's an example enough to infuriate anyone. The first car i was interested in was on at £9681. I phoned and offered £8900, the saleswoman stated 'there's no way the (the sales manager) would do that'. So I offered £9000....same response, then came back with a fantastic £80 reduction and the usual 'there just isn't the markup in these cars to offer that discount'. Two days later the car is reduced on the website to £9300. Five days later the car is on at £8900. Need I say more? As it turned out I later realized that this was the 99bhp version and not the one I wanted (125bhp) - this is a mute point as far as price and discount goes though. So do we still believe them?

Some good links that people have put up thankyou - will do some more investigating.

FASTdan - 7/12/15 at 10:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
buy this one instead

http://www.thecarpeople.co.uk/find-a-car/car-details/ford-focus-wakefield-277202

or this one

http://www.trustfordonline.co.uk/used-cars/74614/ford-focus/

unless your wanting the facelift version?

[Edited on 7/12/15 by beaver34]


Thanks for those. I'm not fussed about the tit spec, seems like your paying another grand or so for even more toys (the zetec spec is plenty high enough). That 2nd one is a hatch - another thing I'm finding, loads of hatches come up in search results as estates!

ravingfool - 7/12/15 at 11:08 AM

buying cars of any kind is just a lesson in losing money

Best avoided whenever possible!

I'm a bit surprised that you're not able to pick up a deal at this time of the year though - not generally a popular time for buying a car - but perhaps by December it's too late to alter a salesperson's Christmas bonus?

beaver34 - 7/12/15 at 11:13 AM

quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
buying cars of any kind is just a lesson in losing money

Best avoided whenever possible!

I'm a bit surprised that you're not able to pick up a deal at this time of the year though - not generally a popular time for buying a car - but perhaps by December it's too late to alter a salesperson's Christmas bonus?


depends on how well they have done, quarter end deals are the best normally if they have not hit there quantity to get there reward back from Ford for volume, that's when you will get the very best deals in all fairness.

maybe its not the same in used cars?

owelly - 7/12/15 at 12:44 PM

Play them at their game. If they say they are the cheapest in the country, grab some Autotrader adverts to compete. Play the dealers off against each other. If they really are the cheapest and they've already trimmed the price on the screen, you'll struggle to get more money off. Try to get some 'freebies' chucked in to make you feel better!!

rdodger - 7/12/15 at 01:06 PM

The example you gave of the car being reduced after a week, 2 weeks etc is pretty typical.

A Dealer Principal (large Ford) I know surprised me a few years ago by telling me they depreciate the stock they hold.

I guess it's obvious really as cars depreciate as we all know but I thought a car would be held on stock at the buy in price and they would look to make a margin on it.

It seems they worked on a book price and depreciated it in line with the guide they used (Glasses Guide in those days.)

Often after 30 days if they were unsold they would just send them to auction.

His best tip to me was to ask the Sales Manager if he had any 30 day cars he wanted rid of. Trouble is of course popular models won't last 30 days!

Having said all that I have seen cars go up in price too!

[Edited on 7/12/15 by rdodger]

mcerd1 - 7/12/15 at 04:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Irony
Just plain run from Evans Halsham. Bunch of utter cowboys.


I wasn't very impressed by them either...

Went to look at a C-max they had in that ticked most of the boxes.

First off I had to put up with nearly 10 min of them asking me about finance deals that I wasn't interested in
Next they wouldn't let me yes drive it without a substantial deposit, and even then only if I effectively agreed to buy the car if nothing was wrong on the test drive
Then after looking over the car I was convinced that it was ok, but maybe £500 to £1000 overpriced compared to others of the same spec and mileage and found that they wouldn't do anything to the price - so I told them to shove it

4 weeks later they still had it advertised, but £1000 cheaper ( I'd got another one before then thought)


The other 2 c-max's i looked at were both trade-ins in Vauxhall main dealers (not EH) one was the same price as the EH one, but with 30k less on the clock and a top spec with all the toys in a nice blue colour.
The other was a slightly lower spec but with 10k less on it and £1300 cheaper
Both of these offered test drives without any hassle or deposit and a little wiggle room on price as well.


In the meantime i got endless calls from EH to see if i was still looking

[Edited on 7/12/2015 by mcerd1]

Simon - 7/12/15 at 05:12 PM

We just bought the wife a Kia Venga SR7 - put about £8k down, £30 / month plus balloon.

So happy with it, me and brothers have stumped up deposit for a Kia Picanto for me mother.

However these people might help

new-car-discount.com



ATB

SImon

[Edited on 7/12/15 by Simon]

snapper - 7/12/15 at 06:56 PM

You need to find a Ford employee, they have a voucher system that gets ( depending on model) £1500 off
Then you court the dealership by getting some credit so they get the credit sale and you pay it off at the earliest opportunity

Worzey - 7/12/15 at 07:53 PM

We negotiated almost 15% off a Fiesta ST3 Mountune for SWMBO in the summer and could have got an even better deal on DriveTheDeal.

Given your budget I'd be surprised if you couldn't get a new car for close to the used price if you shop around.

rm0rgan - 7/12/15 at 08:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rdodger
Have you tried brokers like Drive the deal?

https://www.drivethedeal.com/


^^^This^^^

When I bought a VW Scirocco on PCP, I took the DTD quote to them (I screenshot it as they charge you to print it out, and in fact, any good dealership will let you do the quote in front of them as evidence of the deal) and simply said "I either order it here, or you beat the price and I order the car through you - your choice".

Now, at the time, DTD were offering nearly a £5k discount on the Scirocco which included a £1k finance contribution (170, DSG with every possible option ticked).

The dealership beat the DTD quote by £500 - so now I was £5.5k off a car that was just shy of £30k list price with all the options ticked. I got a new car for less than I could buy a 2nd hand one off their forecourt with 10,000 miles on it - simply crazy!!

Now, what I didn't realsise was that as I had ticked every option, it was going to be a factory build car that took nearly 4 months to arrive from the Motherland , however, in the meanwhile VW increased their PCP contribution from £1k to £1.5k which the dealership was obliged to pass on - I was £6k off list price and paid £24k for a brand new car (plus they chucked in a free tank of derv, 3 years free servicing and mats :-))

I'd never buy a new car from a dealership that wouldn't offer some significant discount - else i'd place the order with DTD or someone similar .

Toys2 - 7/12/15 at 08:35 PM

I get Ford employee discount through my Dad, I don't think that you can fiddle the system, unless you have a very close friend who you would trust to register your car in their name - I certainly wouldn't recommend it

We bought a Grand CMAX last year, I found the best price in the country and then just walked into my local Ford dealership, with the add on my ipad, told them a white lie, that the dealer had one waiting for me and said that I could drive the 600 mile round trip to get the deal but I'd prefer to stay local, no other discussions, I got about 2 grand off their previous best price (already discounted for employees)

A couple of weeks later we needed to change our other car as I had big engine problems, we wanted a basic Fiesta and they could offer only a token discount - more to keep me as a future customer
By this time we were quite chatty, he told me that they had literally sold the CMax below cost price, as they have both financial and unit targets to meet, I'd happen to come in right at the end of the quarter and they needed to sell a couple of units to make their target, doing so would mean that they'd actually get a few % extra discount on all of the cars that they bought from Ford for the next quarter. The Fiesta however was at the start of the quarter and they weren't so fussed

So my advice, price match anywhere in the country even across brands
If possible try to find out when their target dates are - hopefully they are behind plan!

Finally, are you doing enough mileage to justify the extra price of the Ecoboost? will you get that money back in fuel savings?

bowood14 - 8/12/15 at 07:46 AM

Try Carwow.com my friends who work at dealerships are always swearing about the discounts offered!!

[Edited on 8/12/15 by bowood14]

SJ - 8/12/15 at 01:36 PM

Just looked at drivethedeal. Do Ford really do a 1.0 ecoboost Mondeo or is it just a crap website?

MikeR - 8/12/15 at 01:45 PM

bear in mind VW sales are 20% down - all those car buyers are going somewhere so Ford will be doing good business at the moment.

beaver34 - 8/12/15 at 02:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SJ
Just looked at drivethedeal. Do Ford really do a 1.0 ecoboost Mondeo or is it just a crap website?


yes they do, its ok actually 125bhp

not going to set the wold on fire but its the cheapest mondeo they do

rdodger - 8/12/15 at 02:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SJ
Just looked at drivethedeal. Do Ford really do a 1.0 ecoboost Mondeo or is it just a crap website?


Yes they do!

FASTdan - 9/12/15 at 11:22 AM

Lots of good info coming out of this, thanks to everyone so far - glad I posted! I had no idea about the sites like carwow and drivethedeal - makes sense to at least use these as leverage if nothing else!

As mentioned by a couple of people when looking at a 1 year old £16k 1.5 Zetec S (which I was trying to buy for £15k), using the above sites buying brand new actually isn't coming out a lot more expensive (carwow coming in at around 18k on ford finance). But then of course I start wondering about leasing. For circa £200 per month (£1100 deposit, so cost over 3 years approx £2700 per year) I can lease the 1.5 Zetec S ecoboost. But actually not sure if thats particularly cost effective - at £18k if the car devalued by £2700 PA that would put it at only £10k re-sale. Judging by 3 year old ecoboost estates at the moment it looks to me like a 12k'ish value would be more appropriate.

It is of course all speculation - indeed simply a lesson in loosing money. Partly why I've always bought old cars and run the risk, but as its supposed to be the family wagon I feel now is the time to get something a bit nicer.

As for mileage and justifying the ecoboost - hadn't really thought about it. I just didn't really want to spend a decent amount of money and have the old 1600 sigma engine in there. I also figure that the 1600 sigma models will drop in value massively compared to the new tech. I like the philosophy of the new little turbo engines and I am afraid I cannot get excited about diesels. The 1.0 125bhp seems the sensible choice, but heart says 1.5 Zetec S - this seems to sit nicely as a compromise between the 1.0 and the ST. I would love an ST, but as I'd barely be driving it it would be a waste and potential headache (thinking theft). Its a shame they seem to reserve the 180bhp 1.5 EB for the titanium only, judging by how the 150bhp drives I bet that would be a perfect balance of practicality and performance.

ChrisW - 9/12/15 at 11:33 AM

Best bit of advice has already been given....

The dealership will get a good kick back on the finance so they will take that into account when selling. By law you have 14 days 'cooling off' period when you take out a finance package.

So if you are genuinely a 'cash' buyer a way to get a deal is to take the car on finance and negotiate the best price with the dealer ideally opting for the worst interest rate you can and therefore giving them the biggest kick back. Then, within 14 days, ring the finance company saying you have changed your mind and want to cancel the agreement by paying in full.

Chris

Toys2 - 9/12/15 at 05:06 PM

The Ford website is showing a deposit allowance of £2075 against a focus zetec if purchased with ford credit

There are terms and conditions of course, when we bought ours we got a similar deal, the cost of credit was about £800, so net of £1200 ish
Check that the model you want is covered by the deal, play around with your deposit amount to give the best deal and lowest cost of credit (there is a maximum deposit allowed to qualify for this deal)