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Is this truly the end for kit cars?
Slimy38 - 26/7/17 at 06:43 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40723581

A complete ban on petrol and diesel cars from 2040. I know that there have been one or two electric cars, but most kit car builders probably don't have the facilities to work with hybrids or milk floats.

As ever no doubt the details will come out later, but as most low volume manufacturers are already moving I to hybrids, will we be left out in the cold?


avagolen - 26/7/17 at 06:59 AM

'No new cars' so if we use 'old parts' and aim for a 'Q' plate, then that will be ok, won't it........

[Edited on 26/7/17 by avagolen]


pekwah1 - 26/7/17 at 07:03 AM

Yes does depend on the definition of "new".
Otherwise I guess we need to get the spammers back about and start reading up on electric motors!! In my last job I was working on 'Electric and Hybrig vehicle technology international' magazine and saw a lot of interesting stuff including electric kit cars...


jelly head - 26/7/17 at 07:06 AM

What about HGVs and buses?


Irony - 26/7/17 at 07:14 AM

Well I hope they plan on updating our electricity infrastructure then because when we all plug our cars in there won't be enough 'leccy' to go around.

We'll all be building electric kit cars by then anyway.


russbost - 26/7/17 at 07:18 AM

I'd be prepared to bet this has not in any sensible way been thought thro', I was told some years ago that there isn't enough Lithium on the planet to power more than about 40% of the vehicles we had at that time, I don't know for sure that that's true, but it would seem quite likely, also how much is recoverable once you've used it once in a battery?

You can guarantee it will run out at some point, as will many other precious & non-precious metals, unless we stop the human population explosion, I think we'll have a lot more to worry about by 2040 than what we're powering our cars with .............


phelpsa - 26/7/17 at 07:22 AM

Who to say lithium cells, or even electric cars, will be the best technology come 2040?


cliftyhanger - 26/7/17 at 07:27 AM

I am betting the future is hybrid, and that it is purely petrol or diesels that will disappear.

Just think about it, all those terraced houses in the country, how are they going to charge their cars?
Plus I think (happy to be wrong) that as a country we are already marginal on electricity production. How is that going to cope with the 6pm surge when everybody gets home, plugs their car in, puts the oven on and makes a cuppa??
OK, we are all dooooomed.


russbost - 26/7/17 at 07:28 AM

quote:
Originally posted by phelpsa
Who to say lithium cells, or even electric cars, will be the best technology come 2040?


But what I'm getting at has little to do with technology, it is the fact that you cannot have an ever expanding economy (& population) on a finite planet (unless you're an economist of course!) & I don't think we'll be colonising any other planets in volume anytime soon, hence why I think we may have more to worry about than kitcars & how to power them!


Nickp - 26/7/17 at 07:38 AM

Mine already moves on the starter so is it a hybrid?


theconrodkid - 26/7/17 at 07:39 AM

As others have pointed out here, there is just about electrickery now to go round,a bigger population, unable to park outside you home so no chance of charging your buggy,i think personal transport will be for the rich only, everyone else will have to take the bus.
so unless someone discovers a new power source, we are screwed.


SJ - 26/7/17 at 07:43 AM

quote:

Just think about it, all those terraced houses in the country, how are they going to charge their cars?



One possible answer to that is that they won't own cars, and that car ownership will only be affordable for the very rich. The rise of electric cars will happen in tandem with autonomous cars and ultimately that could well mean the death of non-autonomous cars due to the legal, ethical and insurance issues that will arise in a mixed autonomous / non-autonomous economy.

That leaves us in a world where if you need to drive you hail an autonomous cab that takes you where you want to go.

Hope I'm wrong though.


WallerZero - 26/7/17 at 08:06 AM

Wishy washy statement made to make us look like we care just like other countries banning them 20-30 years into the future. Who thought 20-30 years ago we'd be heading back to electric cars capable of 300 miles and speeds over 100mph in them?

As mentioned, there is a lot more to worry about as to what cars we'll be driving or flying

On a unrelated side note....anyone know where I can buy petrol tankers and how long petrol keeps for? Asking for a friend.....


CosKev3 - 26/7/17 at 08:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by WallerZero
Wishy washy statement made to make us look like we care just like other countries banning them 20-30 years into the future. Who thought 20-30 years ago we'd be heading back to electric cars capable of 300 miles and speeds over 100mph in them?

As mentioned, there is a lot more to worry about as to what cars we'll be driving or flying

On a unrelated side note....anyone know where I can buy petrol tankers and how long petrol keeps for? Asking for a friend.....


Yeah mad max style world FTW


motorcycle_mayhem - 26/7/17 at 08:54 AM

We'll need a few more Hinckley Point's, not just increasing the current extension cables from Norway and Denmark.

More words though, from the political class (who will be able to afford new, heavily taxed, personal transport in 2020) who brought us the Dome, HS2, IT and other fine well-managed projects. Mainly, it seems a London thing..

Working folk to be screwed again, nothing new here, move on.

Most of us that are still interested in physical things, beyond the phone screen, will be in driverless mobility scooters. Assuming, of course, there's any space left to do so, or any need to.

It'll all be virtual.


chillis - 26/7/17 at 09:20 AM

Its only a ban on the sale of new Petrol and diesel cars from 2040, though some reports seem to be scaremongering it to appear as though all petrol and diesel cars will have to be scrapped by 2040.
Kit built cars based on parts from existing cars are not 'new' cars so it seems only Caterham and similar would have to worry.
The biggest problem facing petrol cars over the next 20 or so years is going to be the decline in petrol availability as by 2040 almost all cars will be electric or alternative fuel, so the availability of petrol will be much less widespread and thus more expensive.
It would seem likely that kit cars in the future will have to gravitate toward 48v electric if they are to survive.


WallerZero - 26/7/17 at 09:25 AM

I'm still waiting for the Ford Nucleon to go into production


russbost - 26/7/17 at 09:49 AM

Suspect this is the sort of thing we have to expect - sorry it's very American, & a few years old now, but makes a good point

Dinky Linky


Ugg10 - 26/7/17 at 10:01 AM

Great headline fodder but I suspect as soon as the Government realise how much they will loose in revenue from road tax, fuel duty, garage servicing VAT, sales of oil/plugs/filters VAT, loss of jobs in petrol/diesel engine servicing and parts production and infrastructure costs including adding 25-50% to the UK power generating capacity they may change their minds. This is obviously based on the fact that the assumed solution is fully electric drive, however this may differ if Hydrogen fuel cells are the most likely long term option.

Interestingly this is put out in the same week as news on local electricity storage from Solar/Wind on every house which I guess could be used to charge up your car.


jeffw - 26/7/17 at 10:19 AM

This is likely to go hand in hand with Autonomous vehicles (as has been said) which will mean we don't own cars. This will have a knock on effect to a large number of industries from car parts/car manufacturing to insurance and car parking. Complete disruption of the current economy, no taxi drivers/van drivers/bus drivers etc etc.


hughpinder - 26/7/17 at 10:26 AM

Road transport uses more energy than the total capacity of our current electric supply, so power generation and distribution capacity will have to at least double, since the grid is already >95% loaded in the winter. Even if we started now, it is unlikely we could build that much nuclear power in that time. Would probably need to make it compulsary to have charging points in all workplace/commercial parking, and parking/charging meters on all roads. Buy shares in copper cable/battery/cgarge station manufacturers now!

On the other hand I have run about 300k on LPG and that isn't petrol or diesel, so would you still be able to buy a 'petrol' car as long as it was running on LPG?
Hydrogen is possible, but I think too dangerous (we use it where I work - I would want to be too close to somewhere storing a lot of it, especially cars when they get old and not well maintained)
Methanol/alcohol could be burned directly in modified petrol engines, or in a fuel cell.

Mine is the all electric car towing a dirty great diesel generator running on red diesel!

Can't remember what the Rover that had the gas turbine used as fuel - kerosene I think, so thats ok!

ETA
A few years ago the government commissioned a report on whether renewables could provide all the UKs energy - I think they intended it to be 'electricity' which is only 28% of our total energy use. I think it was Manchester university engineering dept or somewhere like that. They looked at solar, wind, tidal, water storage in artificial lakes etc. It concluded that you basically can't do it with any single renewable source (except tidal). Wind power could produce just over 20% of our annual energy needs - but that was spacing the wind turbines at optimal spacing over the whole of the uk and as far out to sea as it was technically possible to build them, and didn't even consider how that much energy could be stored to be able to use it when you wanted it!
[Edited on 26/7/17 by hughpinder]

[Edited on 26/7/17 by hughpinder]


JoelP - 26/7/17 at 11:06 AM

Great goal, probably not the best way to achieve it. Myself, id restart the fuel duty escalator, maintain subsidies on electric cars, create tax breaks for companies involved in research into these fields (energy generation, storage, transmission, driverless tech, intelligent energy usage, etc), and proper state intervention into the nation electricity market. Hinkley Point is one of the worst deals ever signed, an absolute shocker. I'm not convinced that nuclear power is the way forward (the strike price agreed will be higher than renewables in a few years time, and the clean up cost when it's decommissioned will be eye watering). Tidal power is as reliable as clockwork, can actually provide 24hr output, the concrete lasts 120 years, and there is no nuclear contamination to clean up. That, coupled with developments in high voltage dc transmission, and intelligent storage in all the cars that happen to be plugged in, is where I think the future is. Its absolutely clear to me that we cant carry on this way, but at the same time, i'm no fan of ham-fisted government intervention like outright bans.

To summarise:

-urgent and immediate scrappage scheme to get the worst diesels off the road
-gentle but relentless rises in fuel duty
-maintain ze subsidies
-get to work preparing the national grid for the changes that have been obviously approaching for a decade

and maybe most importantly, agreements across Europe to bring similar measures in across the continent. If only we were key players in a continent-wide body that could rapidly bring out harmonised regulations!


owelly - 26/7/17 at 11:19 AM

I see headlines like these and immediately start looking for the 'real' stories that are being hidden....Any politicians up to no good?!


SJ - 26/7/17 at 11:27 AM

quote:

Any politicians up to no good?!



That's one thing there isn't normally a shortage of!


Mr Whippy - 26/7/17 at 11:52 AM

electric cars are easy to build as kit or home built cars, just not very cost effective currently when compared to an engine

I don't see why this will do the kit car industry any real harm whatsoever. Battery, controller and motor costs will plummet the more are produced....I bet by 2040 even my old deadweight brick of a landy could at last be converted effectively. Bring it on


Benzine - 26/7/17 at 11:55 AM

What's this nonsense about horses? Me and my men will have a field cleared in a week, and sown in a day. I'm sure this will just blow over.

There's talk of steam engines overtaking the horse. I can't see it myself. They need water every 10 miles, who's going to put water points across all of the country? And the same for coal?! There's no interest in something that can only go that far. I'll be sticking with my horse. We've got shire horses for working the fields, horses for transport and small ponies for working down the pits. I'm sure this will just blow over, you'll see.

People on the streets are sayin' that this new kind of engine is going to overtake the steam engine. What a load of codswallop. This empire was built on steam, it's lasted a hundred years and will last hundreds more. We've improved them over the years and they'll keep getting better. We've got steam engines for our boats, trains, traction engines and pumping houses. People are buying petrol in tins, it'll take ages to fill your car up! And how are they going to get petrol to every town and village across Britain? I've seen some of these new petrol cars, they can only go 20 miles and I can run faster! No, I'm sorry, steam is king and it's here to stay. I'm confident that this will all blow over.

I've heard about electric vehicles are the up and coming trend. What tripe. My diesel engine will keep on ticking for another 300 thousand miles, I've no need for a car that can only go 100 miles! And how are we going to get electricity to people's homes? This will definitely blow over, mark my words.

[Edited on 26-7-2017 by Benzine]


chillis - 26/7/17 at 11:57 AM

It must be remembered that we have grown up in an age where the expectation of being able to travel anywhere and at anytime is seen as a right rather than a privilege. We are going to go back to a time when traveling to the next town is an event rather than a right, as we think of it now thus transport especially personal/private transport will be a thing of the past.


jps - 26/7/17 at 12:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
What's this nonsense about .....


Exactly! Once electric (or hybrid, or 'nuclear reactor in the boot' becomes the 'best' choice for consumers - with I suspect 'best' being defined as 'the cheapest to them' - there will be an natural shift over. Prime example - the shift to diesel over the last few decades.

I think for our interest area there will undoubtedly be either
a) exceptions for small volume 'new' production going forward
b) tech which is either so 'everyday' we will be building 'hybrid' kit cars anyway beacuse of what we get from donors
c) workaround products we buy which meet the letter of the legislation if not the spirit
d) options to build 'new' petrol/diesel without limit - but with a big financial disincentive....

Cars are not the only items which use petrol - we won't ALL be using electric strimmers/chainsaws/generators/lawnmowers/whacker plates/ in 23 years time remember - so some kind of fuel infrastructure will have to remain too....


tims31 - 26/7/17 at 01:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cliftyhanger
I am betting the future is hybrid, and that it is purely petrol or diesels that will disappear.

Just think about it, all those terraced houses in the country, how are they going to charge their cars?
Plus I think (happy to be wrong) that as a country we are already marginal on electricity production. How is that going to cope with the 6pm surge when everybody gets home, plugs their car in, puts the oven on and makes a cuppa??
OK, we are all dooooomed.


Nope, you're absolutely right, I work at a Biomass power station and 5:30 in the morning and 16:30 in the evening we can see the fluctuations on the grid. As the coal fired stations are going this is putting more strain on all the other stations too. Once all the new nuclear stations are up and running we will be fine (hahahaha) at a cost of????????


Ugg10 - 26/7/17 at 01:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by owelly
I see headlines like these and immediately start looking for the 'real' stories that are being hidden....Any politicians up to no good?!


reading between the line on radio 5 reporting the real story is that the Government had to publish a report on energy future and green stuff by the end of the month or be in breach of a court order brought by some lobby group. This doe snot strictly satisfy the court order as it was supposed to be about a complete clean air policy but the report concentrates on a small part of the problem but get the courts of their backs.

Anyway, kit car solution below :-) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P7Yz8IBLUI

Build diary here - http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/topic/121032-the-fastest-accelerating-westfield-in-the-world-the-megawatt/



[Edited on 26/7/17 by Ugg10]

[Edited on 26/7/17 by Ugg10]


MikeRJ - 26/7/17 at 02:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by chillis
It would seem likely that kit cars in the future will have to gravitate toward 48v electric if they are to survive.


Why 48v? That's very low voltage for an EV.


Irony - 26/7/17 at 02:45 PM

Giving up our fossil fuel based cars for an electric vehicle is not at this point a cost effective alternative solution. 99% of businesses only care about the bottom line. The business I work for maintains a large fleet of vehicles (both cars and lorries) and we would convert to electric in a second if it would prove profitable. At this point it doesn't prove cost effective. We have a profit share scheme and if the management said 'we can change to electric but your profit share will go down'. I know which way the vote would go.

Until petrol and diesel transportation starts hurting peoples pockets we will not adopt electric as a nation.


steve m - 26/7/17 at 07:08 PM

Dutton log books would be worth 10 k or so


Simon - 26/7/17 at 08:22 PM

20 years time, the scrappies will be full of tesla S100D's/BMW i8's. So we'll have 400bhp kitcars that are charged by a solar panel on the roof.

What's not to like


Volvorsport - 26/7/17 at 09:40 PM

Super capacitors are being developed already . Once that happens properly . Bye bye petrol/diesel.


coozer - 26/7/17 at 10:28 PM

Cant see the oil companys going with this.

Anybody seen the program 'who killed the electric car?'

[Edited on 26/7/17 by coozer]


coozer - 26/7/17 at 10:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jelly head
What about HGVs and buses?


Bring back trams, thats one thing sorted.. then expand the railways and have goods yards in every town then distribute on horse drawn carts...

Timewarp!


02GF74 - 27/7/17 at 02:07 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
20 years time, the scrappies will be full of tesla S100D's/BMW i8's. So we'll have 400bhp kitcars that are charged by a solar panel on the roof.

What's not to like



The sound of a burbling v8.


russbost - 27/7/17 at 07:13 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
20 years time, the scrappies will be full of tesla S100D's/BMW i8's. So we'll have 400bhp kitcars that are charged by a solar panel on the roof.

What's not to like


Ummm, the fact that to get sufficient charge from a solar panel on the roof you'd need to charge up for about 3 weeks to get 10 miles down the road & back!!!


mackei23b - 27/7/17 at 08:31 AM

What about the flux capacitor then we'll be able to travel back to the future to have a look at transport towards infinity and beyond...

quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
Super capacitors are being developed already . Once that happens properly . Bye bye petrol/diesel.


Simon - 27/7/17 at 09:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by russbost
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
20 years time, the scrappies will be full of tesla S100D's/BMW i8's. So we'll have 400bhp kitcars that are charged by a solar panel on the roof.

What's not to like


Ummm, the fact that to get sufficient charge from a solar panel on the roof you'd need to charge up for about 3 weeks to get 10 miles down the road & back!!!


Probably be a bit more development between now and then. We are talking 20 odd years away after all.


russbost - 27/7/17 at 09:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
quote:
Originally posted by russbost
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
20 years time, the scrappies will be full of tesla S100D's/BMW i8's. So we'll have 400bhp kitcars that are charged by a solar panel on the roof.

What's not to like


Ummm, the fact that to get sufficient charge from a solar panel on the roof you'd need to charge up for about 3 weeks to get 10 miles down the road & back!!!


Probably be a bit more development between now and then. We are talking 20 odd years away after all.


Size of panel to fit on roof would be around 250Wh at current (pun intended!) levels, which are around 10% efficient, let's say we've got up to 40% efficient (highly unlikely!) so same size panel chucks out 1kWh so in 8 hours of full sun (ha ha, this is the UK!) we get a max of 8kWh.

Lets say we have 100hp electric motor & it runs at 50% of it's capacity for our 20 mile round trip taking around 1/2 hour so 50 hp = 37.5Kw for 1/2 hr = 18.75Kwh, however, you shouldn't let battery capacity drop below half or it damages batteries, so make that 37.5Kwh again!

So it should (in full sun & assuming the efficiency gains given) only take about 5 days rather than 3 weeks Only problem being how often do we get 5 days of full 8hrs sun, so it would probably be more like 10 days, but still, I grant you, better than the 3 weeks I originally predicted! Now the only problem is if I want to do more than a 20 mile round trip every 10 days or so or if I want a more powerful motor!


Mr Whippy - 27/7/17 at 11:32 AM

Going back to good old fashioned horse powered transport may be the way as they must be carbon neutral but burning them as fuel would probably smell a lot and their quite bulky so some sort of big blender may be required

I once poured chicken fat into a fire and it went up like petrol and a horse is a lot bigger than a chicken...


peter030371 - 27/7/17 at 12:44 PM

So much thinking above is stagnated to the world around us as it is today. Think outside the box

Simple solution to a lot of the problems of recharging......user replaceable battery packs/ trays call it what you will. I am 99.9% sure its already been thought of and is being worked on (if not its my idea and I claim £0.01 per pack built in future)

You will still visit a 'petrol' station (which can still sell petrol for those of us with classic cars) but you will slot out your tired battery pack and slot in a fully charger one and drive off again. They can recharge as and when it suits them both in practical and financial terms i.e. early hours of the morning using low cost power. Us users simply lease the battery pack and pay monthly for the energy we use. Buy leasing you also don't have to worry about replacing a worn out battery pack on a 6-7 year old car

We could still top-up the charge at home if we have the parking space/ charging point .

Battery pack density if currently doubling every 10 years so in 20+ years time a 300 mile range pack will be 1/4 the size of todays battery packs. All very 'do-able' and in 20 years we have heaps of time to get it sorted!

Tyre manufactures are working on (and in some ares using) similar lease schemes so you no longer own your tyres but just pay a small fee per mile.

I am a techno geek and would LOVE to build an electric '7', the possible power available is staggering


trextr7monkey - 27/7/17 at 12:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
Going back to good old fashioned horse powered transport may be the way as they must be carbon neutral but burning them as fuel would probably smell a lot and their quite bulky so some sort of big blender may be required

I once poured chicken fat into a fire and it went up like petrol and a horse is a lot bigger than a chicken... [/quot


Private Eye used to regularly bring in reports from around the world revealing snippets of news from
Far flung places and I remember some party in the Far East where a suckling pig being roasted exploded and maimed a load of people there's some energy in lard!!!

Atb
Mike


Mr Whippy - 27/7/17 at 01:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
Super capacitors are being developed already . Once that happens properly . Bye bye petrol/diesel.


looking at those on the web the tech seems to be already here and seem much better than batteries, quite interesting


peter030371 - 27/7/17 at 02:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
Super capacitors are being developed already . Once that happens properly . Bye bye petrol/diesel.


looking at those on the web the tech seems to be already here and seem much better than batteries, quite interesting


To the average man on the street a supercapacitor and a rechargeable battery are the same thing. They are still a source of (electrical) energy but without the nasty lithium stuff that tends to cause a few problems when it gets a little smokey

Maybe we should all just refer to them as Accumulators which is what they all are anyway


David Jenkins - 27/7/17 at 02:44 PM

Maybe this is the way we'll go... Hydrogen powering cars via fuel cells.



Basically, it's hydrogen created using a local wind turbine (or similar green technology). It also explains the thinking behind the Toyota Prius, which I've always thought of as a "meh" car. I like the idea that the Mirai can power your house in the event of a power cut (but not yet in the UK). Clearly other manufacturers are watching this technology, as there were several big names at this presentation. The big bonus is that you could fill an "empty" car in just a couple of minutes, instead of plugging in an electric car and waiting anything from 30 minutes to several hours.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd have an electric car tomorrow (even if the electricity came from a hydrogen fuel cell). Apart from the very occasional long journey, even current cars would easily fit my lifestyle. As for this technology - I view it as "very interesting, but I'll wait and see".

But coming back to the original post - I doubt that any home car maker could meet the regulations for keeping battery packs or fuel cells safe. They can be dangerous in a crash (look at Richard Hammond's recent accident) so the chances of an amateur builder making a safe vehicle are slim to non-existent.


gremlin1234 - 27/7/17 at 03:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
But coming back to the original post - I doubt that any home car maker could meet the regulations for keeping battery packs or fuel cells safe. They can be dangerous in a crash (look at Richard Hammond's recent accident) so the chances of an amateur builder making a safe vehicle are slim to non-existent.
I suspect there will be a modular system for these components, in the same way as we use an engine module, and a gearbox module at the moment.


David Jenkins - 27/7/17 at 03:42 PM

Just thinking... no-one is talking about the other great polluter, which affects petrol, diesel and electric cars equally - tyres. The process of making them is incredibly polluting, and they're a PITA to get rid of once they've worn out. Not sure what the answer is.

As I said - just a random thought.


David Jenkins - 27/7/17 at 03:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234

I suspect there will be a modular system for these components, in the same way as we use an engine module, and a gearbox module at the moment.


The trouble would be with the IVA (or equivalent when this comes into force) - just imagine the requirements for safety and control of the electrical systems to ensure safe charging and discharging of batteries (non-trivial) and management of the hydrogen tank (in the case of fuel cell cars). The only controls at the moment are to do with emissions, and even that depends on the age of the engine. In the case of my x-flow car, the MOT man revs the engine for a while and if he can still see the car it passes! (an exaggeration, but you know what I mean).


sssline - 27/7/17 at 06:19 PM

Interesting link if you would like to see how much electricity is being used and where its coming form

National Grid


Simon - 27/7/17 at 07:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
20 years time, the scrappies will be full of tesla S100D's/BMW i8's. So we'll have 400bhp kitcars that are charged by a solar panel on the roof.

What's not to like



The sound of a burbling v8.


Yep, been there, done that (15 years ago!) and got the t shirt - look at my archive.

Now, I'm boring and have put a deposit on a Tesla Model 3 because I really like the idea of not paying (relatively speaking) to go anywhere. If I was building Deimos from scratch now, it would have a diesel - same bhp, more torque and 3x the mpg. As for the sound, well, it's a bit like a loud can on a bike - you can only hear it up to about 50mph then sound gets lost.

I will, however, persevere with my 1UZFE powered Scimitar. See http://scimitarv8project.blogspot.co.uk/ for updates.

quote:
Originally posted by chillis
It must be remembered that we have grown up in an age where the expectation of being able to travel anywhere and at anytime is seen as a right ...


It is a right, this ain't north korea and god help any idiot who thinks it'll change.

[Edited on 27/7/17 by Simon]


JoelP - 27/7/17 at 08:01 PM

There's a video on YouTube of a Tesla model X beating an Alfa 4c in a drag race - whilst towing an alfa 4c on a trailer behind it. The future is electric.


40inches - 27/7/17 at 08:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
There's a video on YouTube of a Tesla model X beating an Alfa 4c in a drag race - whilst towing an alfa 4c on a trailer behind it. The future is electric.


Ah! But do you own the batteries????


Simon - 27/7/17 at 10:16 PM

You do, and they're warranted for 8 years.


coyoteboy - 27/7/17 at 11:27 PM

I wouldn't worry too much, there's plenty of generating capacity in renewables if we bother to harness it. Battery tech will become plenty good enough by 2040. Trucks would be much better if they were electric. 4wd electric home-built cars will be fun, they'll just require a different skill-set, which will be much more widespread by then anyway.


02GF74 - 28/7/17 at 10:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
I wouldn't worry too much, .


exactly, by then if I'm lucky I will have had to retake my driving test otherwise be drooling in a wheelchair sitting in my own piss, electric cars will be the least of my worries.

but is all seems so very strange and almost like knee jerk reaction; city pollution isn't going to go down if there is no change to the current encouragement of packing in as many people into small areas. ..... and it hasn't been thought through either, what will happen to all those people making them little green plastic petrol cans?


craigdiver - 28/7/17 at 10:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by russbost
I don't think we'll be colonising any other planets in volume anytime soon


Am I going to have to add weight to my car so it doesn't float off when we all move to mars?


Mr Whippy - 28/7/17 at 11:56 AM

would be good if they fitted charging pads into the road at know areas where traffic builds up or have them all along the road charging as you go...

I don't see anything about LPG being banned, that may be a better alternative for the older cars to run as most can do so. I think petrol would be come quite sparse to find and hiked right up in price due lack of demand.


Mr Whippy - 28/7/17 at 12:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Simon
You do, and they're warranted for 8 years.


hmm but that's the problem, they need replacing after 8 years so who's going to buy your car if it's only got a year or so left on a pack life? they know there is a huge expense coming up so folk would either not touch it or want a big discount to cover the cost of the new one, so in effect you have to pay for that too even though your selling it on.

It's a bit like trying to sell a petrol car that has only 10k left on it's engine and then needs a whole new one installed. I mind Rolls Royce had this problem with the Silver Shadow, that it actually was meant to have a full engine rebuild at 100k so there were loads at bargain prices just below that mileage available cos no one wanted to touch them.


SJ - 28/7/17 at 12:24 PM

quote:

Simple solution to a lot of the problems of recharging......user replaceable battery packs/ trays call it what you will. I am 99.9% sure its already been thought of and is being worked on (if not its my idea and I claim £0.01 per pack built in future)



So basically a scaled up Tamiya! We'll even be able to build our own from a kit.


coyoteboy - 29/7/17 at 11:38 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
You do, and they're warranted for 8 years.


hmm but that's the problem, they need replacing after 8 years so who's going to buy your car if it's only got a year or so left on a pack life? they know there is a huge expense coming up so folk would either not touch it or want a big discount to cover the cost of the new one, so in effect you have to pay for that too even though your selling it on.

It's a bit like trying to sell a petrol car that has only 10k left on it's engine and then needs a whole new one installed. I mind Rolls Royce had this problem with the Silver Shadow, that it actually was meant to have a full engine rebuild at 100k so there were loads at bargain prices just below that mileage available cos no one wanted to touch them.


Hmmm but the battery isn't dead after the warranty period, it's just more likely to die off.

This should ease your mind...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110149_tesla-model-s-battery-life-what-the-data-show-so-far


WesBrooks - 31/7/17 at 12:47 PM

Consider the kit car system as an ecosystem. Change in biological systems initiates a period of rapid evolution before things reach a new happy/stable level. The same things happen in more artificial systems like motorsport eg F1 rule changes. This change will eventually force change for the amateur builders. I really look forward to seeing the rapid level of development and hope I'm in a position to have a crack at it myself with what would be my second 4x4 build.

There is apprehension about handling the storage and delivery of the electrical energy but storing 60l+ of highly volatile fluid isn't trivial and formula E have managed well so far, be it with a few battery overheating related go-slows.


HowardB - 1/8/17 at 02:45 PM

built by a bloke in a shed - albeit in Switzerland - there is hope - maybe

electric car from shed